|
|
Post by dizzeesatchel on Dec 9, 2023 16:40:26 GMT
This was discussed a bit on Discord so seemed sensible to get the conversation flowing in a place with a bit more permanence. Loathe as we are to put more work on Robert's plate  he has mentioned some of the older modules getting revisions, so let's collate our suggestions here. Things we know about: - SAWVOX: currently unavailable; new revision has been teased for a while - FMOS: as above - MASTER: maybe with more comprehensive midi capabilities? - HMAMP/POWER: Robert has mentioned some improvement to headphone audio quality - Not specific to one module, but black panels will be default
Some thoughts from my perspective...
AE has a lot more digital modules available now, way beyond the system's original scope! Two knock-on effects of this: noise (digital circuits are hard to keep quiet!) and power draw.
I believe the current master module is good for about 800ma, i don't know whether there's scope for (or value in) increasing this. Big modules like Cirrus and Rains are drawing around 100ma each and some people have experienced power droops here and there. On the noise front i've pretty much abandoned using in-rack headphone amps, they handle modules with OLEDs not too well whereas sending line out into an external device - i've been using a Field Kit - has a really low noise floor on headphones, even with known very noisy modules in the mix (my attempt to build a Daisy Seed host module is proving to be a buzzy nightmare...) Ornament & Crime! It looks like the original firmware will be ported to Teensy 4.0 so maybe this one can return, also in the meantime there's S&C firmware which runs on original hardware with a T4 dropped in, if TW would consider selling it that way? VCO: i haven't noticed this much but others have mentioned the module as it stands has poor tracking, so maybe that's due an upgrade. Please add your thoughts on existing modules which could use a touch-up  |
|
|
|
Post by pt3r on Dec 9, 2023 16:54:28 GMT
Agreed the power module(s) could use some beefing up. Midi on more channels will definitely get more people to make the switch to te AE modular format. VCO tracking is not my main concern but n all fairness on that pricepoint is becomes difficult to build a better tracking analog VCO for that money.
|
|
|
|
Post by robertlanger on Dec 9, 2023 19:50:08 GMT
Thanks for opening this thread! I will follow very careful, and maybe drop my 3 cents here and there ;-)
|
|
|
|
Post by feijai on Dec 9, 2023 22:24:05 GMT
Okay here's my GRAINS dump. I have a large number of suggestions regarding GRAINS. Some of them I sent to Robert. Three more I might list here. - Incoming analog pins are very noisy. At least one of them needs to be filtered well enough to support pitch CV without wavering.
- DAC!
- More memory! And more computational power! But retain the EEPROM!
Am excited to see what other computational devices might be come out in this vein.
Here was my proposed list of improvements to GRAINS that wouldn't cost much: 0. ADD THREE BUTTONS: Digital 3 Digital 4 Digital 7 This is the biggest problem I have with the GRAINS interface: I have no way for the user to change state. When I built Gizmo (https://cs.gmu.edu/~sean/projects/gizmo/) I relied heavily on its three buttons to do a very large amount of stateful stuff, such as approving changes, backing up menus, triggering. I can't do any of that here. This would be my #1 request. 1. ADD TO THE EMPTY SOCKET AT LEFT: Analog 5 Why not? It'd give the GRAINS an additional input option (or digital output). It'd be very nice to have this modulatable by an additional dial, but given the button request I don't think there'd be space for that in a 1U. 2. REDUCE THE "D" TO ONE SOCKET, AND ADD: Digital 0 (GPIO RX) REPLACE THE MULT WITH: Digital 1 (GPIO TX) Digital 2 (Low-Resolution PWM, Interrupts) Digital 5 (Low-Resolution PWM, Interrupts) Digital 6 (Low-Resolution PWM, Interrupts) MAYBE REDUCE THE "OUT" TO ONE SOCKET AND ADD: Digital 10 (Low-Resolution PWM, Interrupts) More digital I/Os would help GRAINS a lot, but the big one would be exposing the GPIOs, which would help GRAINS work with Wonkystuff-style MIDI! I really like the idea of MIDI as an additional data stream in AE Modular, which seems uniquely suited for it. 3. MAYBE ADD A SMALL BIT-BANGED I2C-BASED SCREEN [if we can do so without noise on the bus], OR 3 LEDs Digital 12 (Bit-Banged SDA, or LED) Digital 13 (Bit-Banged SCL, or LED) Digital 14 (LED) I know it'd be hard to fit with the buttons, but a small screen would go a LONG way to making it easier to provide user feedback as to the current state of the system. It doesn't have to be an OLED thing: it could just be a little 1-, 2-, or 4-character alphanumeric, or a small dot grid, or even a bar of LED lights. This would be my #2 request. Because Analog 4 is already used, we can't us the I2C hardware, it'd have to be bit-banged unfortunately, which shouldn't be a problem for a little screen. But if Mozzi can't handle it, we might drop Analog 4 and use Analog 5 in its place so we can have Analog 4 with I2C. Or even if we can't do a screen, just providing THREE LEDS would be helpful! [Plus the TX and RX LEDs, which might be exposed as well...] |
|
|
|
Post by feijai on Dec 9, 2023 22:44:44 GMT
Some other items:
- VCOs track about 4 octaves starting at low C or so but poorly below that. That makes them not very useful for bass. A better tracking 1U VCO would be welcome.
- Adjust the quantizer so it includes the full 5V range.
- Micromodules with knobs are wobbly (note: I'm using the uBase), because they have nothing holding on to them on the bottom left, just the little slot. There is plenty of space for a 2x2 or 2x1 bank of dummy headers whose sole purpose is to grip the micromodules, that'd be a very cheap solution.
- Raw CV on Seq16
- More CV and gate outputs from MIDI on the Master I/O. Just one is not enough. Also: some aux CV derived from MIDI note velocity and aftertouch. And MIDI OUT, more on that in a second.
- I would like to see some better filters. The Wasp Filter is, well, a Wasp filter, weird and squelchy and always highly resonant even with resonance = 0. The SV filter is very tame and its filter CV does not cover more than half of the range (!). The SV filter CV badly needs to have a larger op-amp. The one 303 filter I tried could have been less noisy. And there's no 4-pole!
- I'd like to see a 4VCA with four knobs.
- More effects options.
- LFOs need to have a rate CV!
- Linear FM on each of the osc/d?
- Kick needs to use a trigger rather than a gate
- The TBD needs a filter on its power line.
|
|
|
|
Post by keurslagerkurt on Dec 10, 2023 11:42:21 GMT
Some great points already made. However we might want to keep this thread clean with no new module requests, as we already have our dreaded, but most popular 'future wishlist' thread for that  I think I'm not very great at being super critical (never noticed the SVFilter CV input range being so low!), but its good to have more feedback in general in AE I believe. I believe a quite big part of the power/tracking problem lies in the structure of the case itself. The usage of a cable, and not a bus, keeps down the price considerably (which is superb!), but it also means a big trade-off considering stable, uniform power. Very curious to see how these problems translate to Kyaa's quickswap cases who use a pcb power strip. I think it will be great to have a budget and more expensive option side by side. I don't want this format to end up like a 'smaller Eurorack' where basically 95% of the stuff is premium at premium price. Eurorack can do eurorack, I don't have problem that these premium cases/modules exist and considering their build quality they are fairly price (mostly), but I'd like to AE to keep covering the affordable price range I think in general there might be room for improved modules and, if needed, at slightly higher prices. But in case the prices are way different (eg a 4VCA without or with knobs), I'd also like the options to exist side by side. However this might of course not be worth it considering the extra stock space, pcb's,... |
|
|
|
Post by rockysmalls on Dec 10, 2023 13:13:18 GMT
feijai said: “Micromodules with knobs are wobbly (note: I'm using the uBase), because they have nothing holding on to them on the bottom left, just the little slot. There is plenty of space for a 2x2 or 2x1 bank of dummy headers whose sole purpose is to grip the micromodules, that'd be a very cheap solution.” this seems like a really fine idea , but backwards compatibility for those already heavily invested in the mu module thing could be a hiccup (??) maybe. the 1xRow uCase things are much much steadier , and eg, for a 12 row its 4 baseplates for the price of two effectively.. so not as expensive as they first appear. here’s what i DIYed to avoid the huge gap the current attachment plates cause , which i didn’t like .. i already sent Robert a pic a while back , mine is really a bodge with the bolt holes made thru cut out Tupperware pieces with a hot solder iron.. could do with a few more millimeters accuracy ,, and a homemade bus cable that goes under the case .. ie: consider this a public request for a TW engineered version of this diy solution though it’s pretty solid as it is but might persuade more people on to the muTrain , unless a Kyaa style hotswap version with a mu row is due imminently? just call me CaseySmalls     Attachments:
|
|
frndo
Full Member
Posts: 110
|
Post by frndo on Dec 10, 2023 14:25:33 GMT
I apport my two cents:
-Power module turn too hot (the power consumption about 500ma)
-Drumkit010 with a DAC or better noise filtering
-Grains with better lpf settings (I maked a diy version without filter and increase the general volume and digital noise obviously)
-Cirrus classic with posibility of alternatives firmwares (maybe with teensy 4 or similar new boards)
-Ms20 with better filter character (most users prefer like a kick rather a filter)
-Nyle filter requires a total revisión.. it's too hard make that sounds right quickly
-black front panels for micro modules, are not available in the shop (I bought a lot of uModules from third party vendors, and put it on black stickers to match with the rest of the rack)
-cables requires better quality soldering or joint..constantly makes me soldering connections
-Better case hinge. The rack with black panels increase weight, and the hinge turns not secure.
-In general better quality controls (apply for third party makers too..I receive a Kurt's dead band with the holes on front panel don't fit on potetiometers, and a wonkystuff rbss a milimeter or almost two more bigger than the standard width module)
|
|
|
|
Post by keurslagerkurt on Dec 10, 2023 16:42:28 GMT
-In general better quality controls (apply for third party makers too..I receive a Kurt's dead band with the holes on front panel don't fit on potetiometers, and a wonkystuff rbss a milimeter or almost two more bigger than the standard width module) Heyo, I'll send you a message on the potentiometers, hope you found a solution already, otherwise i'll send you one! Sorry!! |
|
frndo
Full Member
Posts: 110
|
Post by frndo on Dec 10, 2023 17:47:05 GMT
-In general better quality controls (apply for third party makers too..I receive a Kurt's dead band with the holes on front panel don't fit on potetiometers, and a wonkystuff rbss a milimeter or almost two more bigger than the standard width module) Heyo, I'll send you a message on the potentiometers, hope you found a solution already, otherwise i'll send you one! Sorry!! Hi! Don't worry! I drilled the holes a lot, and push to fit it on..sorry if you undestand like a reclaim..my intention it's a constructive criticism. |
|
|
|
Post by MikMo on Dec 10, 2023 20:20:34 GMT
Some great points already made. However we might want to keep this thread clean with no new module requests, as we already have our dreaded, but most popular 'future wishlist' thread for that I think I'm not very great at being super critical (never noticed the SVFilter CV input range being so low!), but its good to have more feedback in general in AE I believe. I believe a quite big part of the power/tracking problem lies in the structure of the case itself. The usage of a cable, and not a bus, keeps down the price considerably (which is superb!), but it also means a big trade-off considering stable, uniform power. Very curious to see how these problems translate to Kyaa's quickswap cases who use a pcb power strip. I think it will be great to have a budget and more expensive option side by side. I don't want this format to end up like a 'smaller Eurorack' where basically 95% of the stuff is premium at premium price. Eurorack can do eurorack, I don't have problem that these premium cases/modules exist and considering their build quality they are fairly price (mostly), but I'd like to AE to keep covering the affordable price range I think in general there might be room for improved modules and, if needed, at slightly higher prices. But in case the prices are way different (eg a 4VCA without or with knobs), I'd also like the options to exist side by side. However this might of course not be worth it considering the extra stock space, pcb's,... I Totally agree with Zeno. Let's keep AE AE. It's a budget modular, and it should stay a budget modular. I know Robert is a listener, he always was, so lets have realistic wishes for upgrades and let Robert judge what is possible within the AE economy. Or maybe ask the community about pricing, as he has done before. If some issues can be fixed with a small increase in price, it's probably worth it. Considering the infaltion we have seen the last few years, i'm surprised that we have not seen more price hikes on the AE stuff. Having several versions of modules and cases might be expensive and tie up money in inventory, someting that is usually not graeat for a small business, but for important things like the cases, it might be a solution. |
|
namke
wonkystuff
electronics and sound, what's not to like?!
Posts: 686
|
Post by namke on Dec 10, 2023 20:42:07 GMT
I apport my two cents: -In general better quality controls (apply for third party makers too..I receive a Kurt's dead band with the holes on front panel don't fit on potetiometers, and a wonkystuff rbss a milimeter or almost two more bigger than the standard width module) Apologies for the size discrepancy. The manufacturers state a tolerance of +/- 0.2mm, so I don't usually check (nearly 2mm larger seems very out of tolerance of course). |
|
|
|
Post by keurslagerkurt on Dec 11, 2023 10:00:01 GMT
Hi! Don't worry! I drilled the holes a lot, and push to fit it on..sorry if you undestand like a reclaim..my intention it's a constructive criticism. I def read this as constructive criticism, thanks for pointing it out, this is probably due to a new batch of potentiometers being slightly off, so its very good to know.. |
|
|
|
Post by dizzeesatchel on Dec 11, 2023 14:53:17 GMT
I apport my two cents: -In general better quality controls (apply for third party makers too..I receive a Kurt's dead band with the holes on front panel don't fit on potetiometers, and a wonkystuff rbss a milimeter or almost two more bigger than the standard width module) Apologies for the size discrepancy. The manufacturers state a tolerance of +/- 0.2mm, so I don't usually check (nearly 2mm larger seems very out of tolerance of course). I have noticed Wonky modules tend to be fractionally larger (vertically) than standard - not usually enough to be a problem although i've occasionally had a tough time getting them into the extreme left or right of a case, i figure theres a lot less flex in the case surround at the corners But yes we're a bit at the mercy of manufacturing when making cheap PCB panels (trying to get the tolerances for the input & output sockets tight but not too tight is fun...) |
|
namke
wonkystuff
electronics and sound, what's not to like?!
Posts: 686
|
Post by namke on Dec 11, 2023 15:08:14 GMT
I have noticed Wonky modules tend to be fractionally larger (vertically) than standard - not usually enough to be a problem although i've occasionally had a tough time getting them into the extreme left or right of a case, i figure theres a lot less flex in the case surround at the corners But yes we're a bit at the mercy of manufacturing when making cheap PCB panels (trying to get the tolerances for the input & output sockets tight but not too tight is fun...) Ah, yeah ok — vertical dimension is probably a bit larger than ‘standard’, I was thinking horizontal. I’ll take that on board for the next re-runs. |
|
gerif
Junior Member
Posts: 76
|
Post by gerif on Dec 12, 2023 16:25:06 GMT
Agreed the power module(s) could use some beefing up. Midi on more channels will definitely get more people to make the switch to te AE modular format. VCO tracking is not my main concern but n all fairness on that pricepoint is becomes difficult to build a better tracking analog VCO for that money.
The midi implementation on Master module is just to have one, but not to make music!
Since long time it is clear there is the need for velocity, pitchbend, modulation, sustain, channel after touch and ability to select each of the 16 channels.
|
|
|
|
Post by pt3r on Dec 12, 2023 19:00:37 GMT
Again all a matter of pricepoint and initial design concepts some people think of midi like absolutely necessary others don’t really care for it. Personally I’m not too fussed about it.one channel gives me my clock sync if I were to need it but since my workflow is modular focused with no daw involved I don’t really need morw for now midi wise.
|
|
pol
Wiki Editors
Posts: 1,349
|
Post by pol on Dec 12, 2023 19:55:48 GMT
Agreed the power module(s) could use some beefing up. Midi on more channels will definitely get more people to make the switch to te AE modular format. VCO tracking is not my main concern but n all fairness on that pricepoint is becomes difficult to build a better tracking analog VCO for that money.
The midi implementation on Master module is just to have one, but not to make music!
Since long time it is clear there is the need for velocity, pitchbend, modulation, sustain, channel after touch and ability to select each of the 16 channels.
The Wonkystuff midi modules would do this for you. Yes, would be nice in the master but not currently! |
|
gerif
Junior Member
Posts: 76
|
Post by gerif on Dec 13, 2023 0:49:46 GMT
Again all a matter of pricepoint and initial design concepts some people think of midi like absolutely necessary others don’t really care for it. Personally I’m not too fussed about it.one channel gives me my clock sync if I were to need it but since my workflow is modular focused with no daw involved I don’t really need morw for now midi wise. AE Modular can be used without Midi and is seems that most users are doing like that.
As soon you have a keyboard connected your can not use any haptic control provided from many keybords. Now Wonkystuff midi modules are a solution, but you need a lot of modules for connecting one keyboard. For a starter rack it is not a solution!
|
|
|
|
Post by pt3r on Dec 13, 2023 6:54:50 GMT
It is not a solution for the people who want to connect multichannel midi key boards to the system for people who wnat to dip their toes in modular synthesis and learn the ropes with subtractive synthesis, the starter rack is perfect as it is.
|
|
gerif
Junior Member
Posts: 76
|
Post by gerif on Jan 24, 2024 19:33:54 GMT
With the MASTER I/O module I found out that Pitch bend is working with my AKAI MINIAK!
The sustain pedal which I have connected is doing nothing! It would be very useful if the gate output is switched to high not only with note on but also as long the sustain (MIDI CC64) is activated (note OR sustain).
Such enhancement would be compatible with the current implementation!
|
|
namke
wonkystuff
electronics and sound, what's not to like?!
Posts: 686
|
Post by namke on Jan 24, 2024 20:46:23 GMT
With the MASTER I/O module I found out that Pitch bend is working with my AKAI MINIAK!
The sustain pedal which I have connected is doing nothing! It would be very useful if the gate output is switched to high not only with note on but also as long the sustain (MIDI CC64) is activated (note OR sustain).
Such enhancement would be compatible with the current implementation!
That’s a good hint — currently the wonkystuff MCO/1 does not do this either — I will add it to the list of features for the MCO/1b 😁 |
|
|
|
Post by duddex on Feb 3, 2024 14:55:26 GMT
Stereo headphone output for the POWER module would be nice |
|
|
|
Post by pt3r on Feb 4, 2024 15:24:51 GMT
A less noisy mixer module would be cool as well or a hum filter would be cool.
|
|
gerif
Junior Member
Posts: 76
|
Post by gerif on Feb 4, 2024 23:31:58 GMT
There are modules with e.g. only two inputs. For each of these inputs there is only one pin at the pin header and some pins are not used (maybe MULT?)! It would be very fine if at least two pins would be in parallel. It would be possible to route an output from one module's input to another module input without any MULT.
Similar it would be fine to have two output pins where it be possible (e.g. 4I/O)!
For example look at: 2ATT/CV, 2CVTOOL, 2LFO, 2SIGNALAMP, 2VCA, MIDICLOCK DIVIDER, DELAY, KICK, MS20 FILTER, MULTIFX, NOISE, POLAMIX, SAMPLE&HOLD, STOMP-IO
|
|
he has mentioned some of the older modules getting revisions, so let's collate our suggestions here.
