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Post by alengthofsound on Mar 25, 2021 15:29:21 GMT
A few days late, but I love that jazzy (jazzae?) riff nightmachine!
I have been a piano player all my life, just coming into modular now, and I do tend to make a background sequence with some 7ths and a jazz scale and riff on top of it with my Minibrute2. Its hard to break out of that pattern when it sounds good...Still figuring out recording though.
The thread is about Jazz, and less about modular really, which is a nice refresher, and educational to boot. Modular does not have to be defined by a type of music, but there are certain types of things it seems difficult for it to do because of the complex programming it takes to make it sound "human" which is really the soul of Jazz. I think TNM did a pretty good job of adding that human touch, literally and figuratively!
Translating jazz theory and chord progressions into modular (via sequencer, keyboard) seems to be difficult as not a lot of people do it apparently, though Colin Bender's stuff is in this vein as he started with orchestral improv before modular. A Solina can definitely do some jazz cords, but putting in the 9ths and 13ths that make it really jazzy would have to be an additional sequencer or a keyboard. Learning jazz theory in detail is something I'm using modular to help with, because of the need to program it.
It seems much easier to "play what sounds good" without thinking about it on a more directly tactile-responsive instrument (piano, trumpet, ect that can adjust the timbre with basically what amounts to unconscious changes in touch, breath, lip movement, body movements). That expressivity is not impossible on a modular system, but it is pretty bloody expensive to get the amount of modulation sources and timbre-altering algorithms needed to make it sound as "alive" as a $200 clarinet.
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Post by lukylutte on Mar 26, 2021 6:35:11 GMT
Jazz have been and could be anything. I'm just listening to Element of Jazz: From Cakewalks to Fusion from the Great Courses. Jazz is define in it as: "music with poly-rhythm, polyphony, improvisation and swing". So if not mistaken all this can be achieved in modular. We even have the Solina for seventh chord  . In Ae format walking bass line and improvised melody are kinda easy to mimic with the sq16 and the rbss. The difficulties I could found is to make sudden changes if we went to have basic song structure AABA or whatever as long as changes are noticeable but still without breaking the groove... I think this could be a nice patch challenge?
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ernyj
New Member
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Post by ernyj on Mar 26, 2021 14:58:40 GMT
Yeah, I had the best neckstraps, custom built performance chairs. Had my horn totally modified to best fit my hands ergonomically. All this while I was young and in good health. Time always wins. Gravity always pulls. Not all of us are going to make it to the age of Sonny Rollins and Dizzy Gillespie did and still be able to play. I found that it was time for me to think like a composer and not like a performer. My modular doesn't care about any of these things. I can make new sound and new music all the time. I have composed 12 tunes since Christmas, enough for two albums. Because I've eliminated the need to maintain chops, all my energy is devoted to composing new music. That is an advantage. I hear you. Double bass player here. I have dealt with body issues relating to bass playing off and on for years. It was starting to get worse to the point that it would take a few days and lots of ibuprofen to recover from a gig. Then the pandemic came along and all the gigs went away so I turned to composing. I really enjoy it. Might sell my bass and buy more modules.  |
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Post by pt3r on Mar 26, 2021 18:02:33 GMT
I'm not ready for that, I hope these dark times will pass eventually and we'll be able again to meet other pepole in person and have jam sessions and all, not say the ae can't do that but there is still something about play that guitar or blowing the horn that I don't have with the AE, which bring me different kinds of musical enjoyment that I don't have on my other instruments.
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ernyj
New Member
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Post by ernyj on Mar 26, 2021 18:21:55 GMT
I'm not ready for that, I hope these dark times will pass eventually and we'll be able again to meet other pepole in person and have jam sessions and all, not say the ae can't do that but there is still something about play that guitar or blowing the horn that I don't have with the AE, which bring me different kinds of musical enjoyment that I don't have on my other instruments.
Is this in response to me saying I would sell my bass and buy more modules? I did not really mean giving up gigs or jams. I can play bass guitar sitting down or with a 4" strap without too many issues and I've always wanted to play a melody instrument like sax so I recently started to fool around with chromatic harmonica. Difficult instrument in its own right but not physically like an upright or bari-sax. Would love to get that to where I can play some tunes at a jam. But none of the straight-up jazz leaders in my area will call on me if I show up with a bass guitar or electric upright. That's the kind of stuff I like to play the standards and Bebop so I would really miss that. I'm not interested in trying to create jazz with modular but would strive to insert the spirit of Jazz and improv into it somehow. Not that far along right now to think about that much. |
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Post by 101 on Mar 27, 2021 21:03:15 GMT
black midi are pretty jazzy! Check out their latest video.
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Post by spacedog on Mar 28, 2021 14:09:55 GMT
There I was thinking that I couldn't possibly play Jazz, and I was playing it all along...
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Lugia
Wiki Editors
Ridiculously busy...ish.
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Post by Lugia on Mar 29, 2021 20:29:46 GMT
Ultimately, this thread makes me want to get an alto and bass clarinet again, have 'em drilled for some Nalbantov piezos, and throw DOWN.
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glitchyfrog
Junior Member
it's time for human music
Posts: 97
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Post by glitchyfrog on Mar 30, 2021 8:09:19 GMT
I recommend Pili-Pili and Gong!
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Post by tIB on Apr 2, 2021 18:51:43 GMT
The main thing about modular synth that we all need to remember is that is isn't about adhering to the cultural norms that have produced the music. Modular is all about the sound. We craft, patch and create new sounds that no one has heard before, then create new soundscapes or new music from those sounds. That's not how jazz works. Jazz has it own culture, norms and etiquette. Look at how quickly some one pointed out the culture of wood shedding and improvising on your own, basically discounting even the thought put putting a jazz tune into a sequencer. That's fine on a cultural level, but that's one reason music dies. Once culture defines the music, it can no longer grow and change because it becomes about fitting into a certain cultural expectation. It dies like Latin. This is exactly why Don Buchla refused to hook up a keyboard to a modular. Simply attaching that keyboard means you've now attached a 450 year tradition on an instrument that is capable of so much more that what came before. Once you slap on a keyboard, it's no longer about the sound and the music. It becomes about meeting a cultural expectation that may not have anything to do with what you're truly trying to do. When you show up with a modular synth with wires dropping like a Frankenstein experiment gone wrong, people don't know what to think of it. They hear sound and music they never knew possible, their eyes open, and their minds prime to learn. You just bypassed any expectation, jadedness that came in the door. Plop a keyboard onto the synth, and all that goes away. They'll expect you to adhear to everything they have predefined in their own heads. If you mention that you're trying to play jazz on a modular synth, you're expected to meet all the cultural norms that have defined jazz culture. That's the sad, pathetic truth of modern society. Most musicians don't listen to sound. They only analyse and replicate pre-existing forms and structures. The thought of doing something new mostly never crosses their minds, or it's so offensive that they would condemn anyone to prison for even mentioning anything new. Great post though the Don Buchla keyboard thing isn't exactly true - there are traditional style keyboards through the range as well as touch based keyboards. See the 238 and 500 series... |
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Post by pt3r on Apr 28, 2021 5:45:53 GMT
Look what I stumbled across:
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ean
New Member
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Post by ean on Jun 1, 2021 1:44:11 GMT
Not much of a pure jazz guy but I did a lot of music digging years ago and enjoyed a lot of jazzy rock. Some of these may be more prog or psychedelic so apologies. I left out Zappa, Miles, Herbie, Weather report etc because you probably know them. A lot of this is from memory and old lists I made because I lost all my music a few years ago 
In no order...
Placebo
Billy Cobham
Mahavishnu Orchestra
Passport
Retrurn to forever
Camel (not sure if jazz)
Soft Machine
Comus (not sure if Jazz)
Zoo
Missus Beastly
Embryo
Agitation Free
Donald Byrd
Joe henderson
Nucleus
Eddie henderson
East of eden
Solution
Brand X
John Zorn This is his most accessible in my opinion. His other stuff you should check out because it's crazy. Too crazy for me.
There are so many more but they escape me..
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Post by foxermod on Jun 1, 2021 5:00:00 GMT
Phew, a lot to answer here, but I like these kinds of threads - so, here goes:
Who’s your favorite Jazz artist?
The answer, for me, is twofold:
As a musician (I'm a commercial trombone player), JJ Johnson - he defined the modern jazz trombone sound and vocabulary, and I'm forever gleaning from listening to and transcribing his solo work.
As a music listener, John Coltrane. Coltrane's poetic (and, frankly, superhuman) harmonic and melodic conceptions are always in vogue. I don't think what he had to say will ever become old hat. His life and work inspired and continues to inspire a great number of jazz instrumentalists. He's monumental, to say the least.
What’s your favorite Jazz style? I feel quite drawn to the Bebop concept after my first week.
I go in and out of liking styles... right now, I'm drawn to Dixieland (Hot Jazz) and modern combo work. I loved bebop so much when I first started studying jazz, but realized that there was much more to say. So, I explored the roots of jazz (musics of the African Diaspora) and, at the same time, became attached to some fabulous modern players, like the Mason Brothers Quintet and Joshua Redman. There are other jazz based groups that I really love like Nik Bärtsch's Ronin, which is very polyrhythmically constructed but still leaves open space for the poetic colors and language of jazz.
What’s your favorite Jazz album?
I can't pick one. But I'll give you 4:
John Coltrane - A Love Supreme
Miles Davis - Bitches Brew
Mason Brothers Quintet - Two Sides/One Story
Nik Bärtsch's Ronin - Holon
What defines Jazz for you? Is it the ride cymbal rhythm and a walking bass line? Is it a ii-V-I chord progression? Is it fluid time signatures? Is it utter chaos with trumpets?
This is subjective, but take from it what you will: Jazz is (I believe) at it's core a poetic language that's reliant upon West African musics of the past - plain and simple. In the same way one would learn musics of West Africa, you learn the poetic parts by learning the vocabulary (improvisational or strictly compositional) of those that came before you. Jazz also grew with the recording medium, so I believe it's important to listen to what the masters had to say in the records; that's the best school. What I love about jazz is that all instrumentalists (and vocalists!) are invited to participate; all levels of capability and ages are invited to participate and learn; ensembles of all sizes can interact with each other with this vocabulary to make this great poetry happen. It's an exchange of, both, cultural and individual ideas through the idiomatic (and, at the same time, differing levels of) interaction of rhythm, harmony, and melody that could change at any time based on the intuition of the individual or collective ensemble. I believe it's an individual's reliance upon spontaneous improvisation and its vast vocabulary that makes jazz really great and exciting.
How could one compose Jazz music on our AE Modular synthesizers?
Use the past influences' tapes and records - learn their language. Structure simple harmonic changes built on 7th, 9th, 11th chords (it doesn't have to be functional harmony) and freely improvise based off of what you hear. Learn how the chromatic scale (half-steps, in general) is the key that works to connect chord changes together, and practice, practice, practice. Also, I wonder how Chick Corea would have answered this question, considering he was one of the greats (if not, the greatest) proponent of synthesizers being incorporated with jazz and fusion music along side Herbie Hancock...
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Post by girault on Jun 1, 2021 7:50:12 GMT
This thread is so exciting I didn’t grow up with jazz. But in my late teen, I really got into funk (was in few funk bands) and it kinda gave me a « in ». So I went with through Marcus Miller, to Herbie, to Miles, to Bird, to then go back later in time with Coltrane, John & Alice, all the fusion and contemporary. Lots have been shared here so I won’t do it again. But I got to highlight Herbie Hancock who is, for me, an example in being true to his musical explorations and always open to new things. I mean that guy went from playing the grand piano with Miles (and I do like the second Miles quintet a touch more than his first with Coltrane, for all the explorations they went through) to using vocoder in a disco aesthetic... in less than 20 years. His cheesy albums « magic windows » and « sunlight » are still fabulous to me. Just not as much as « secrets » and « man-child ». I recently bought the vinyl « dedication » and it blew me away. Apparently recorded on tour in Japan, side A is improv on grand piano, and side B is improv on semi-modular synth, especially the 2600 which he loved back then. So that would interested some of you ! In more contemporary times, lots of beautiful things were shared here so again, won’t share again but I gotta highlight Joshua Redman. My favorite is the album « momentum » with his Joshua Redman Elastic Band. There are some really nice synth moments in there So more I could share but I feel like this thread is already so dense..! I will dilute it in time About the sequencer/step talk, there’s this song by Miles Davis that I liked a lot (been really into bebop and that’s a little remain of it in his 60s discography) : Seven steps to heaven (also the title of the album). The theme is 7 notes going up. I think that was the start of the song and then they built around that. I feel like it’s an approach that could be taken with a modular system |
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