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Post by rockysmalls on Sept 30, 2020 16:29:26 GMT
i’ve been wanting to use separate audio outputs from one of my drum machines to trigger AE synth stuff.. it seems that the Bastl KLIK is now discontinued unfortunately ( not sure if thats because reports say it was a bit hit ‘n’ miss ) Circuitbenders.co.uk have a kit thing for sale at £13 ... it’s 5v powered anybody else here feel this might be a nice 1u AE module to have? ( maybe with two of these types of circuits , one for clock and one for patterned triggers? ) audio to cv
robertlangernamke i guess there is probably ways to bodge this using loud short audio in, signalamp and some other module ( quantizer? i don’t have it ) any thoughts people... or is there already a thread on this |
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Post by MikMo on Sept 30, 2020 16:55:06 GMT
I think you can use some of the CMOS logic chips to create a square pulse from an audio signal.
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namke
wonkystuff
electronics and sound, what's not to like?!
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Post by namke on Sept 30, 2020 18:42:58 GMT
rockysmalls — hmm, yeah maybe an envelope follower followed by some kind of gate (with an adjustable threshold). I think I can visualise a circuit; might well be possible with the Braedboard components… but it also might be a useful utility module?
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Post by rockysmalls on Sept 30, 2020 22:06:28 GMT
rockysmalls — hmm, yeah maybe an envelope follower followed by some kind of gate (with an adjustable threshold). I think I can visualise a circuit; might well be possible with the Braedboard components… but it also might be a useful utility module?
above is the link to the circuitbenders build pdf.. it uses a hex schmitt ic for the trigger... might have to buy one to see how the rest of the resistors, caps & the diode & transistor are wired.. it looks like it might be small enough to stick under a 1u faceplate... an actual AE version would be even better of course... |
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Lugia
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Post by Lugia on Oct 1, 2020 1:41:08 GMT
Definitely needed, to be sure. However, it should be possible to put both modes of envelope following behind the same panel. The really pissy one is, of course, amplitude tracking...because it's necessary to fudge the precision just a TAD because of the nature of the circuit. But the gate output...that's easy! Just employ a basic comparator circuit with a "threshold level" control and maybe a bit of a release delay that can be switched in to make the gate response either high-precision (every transient gets tracked) or low-precision (individual transients aren't tracked exactly, and the gate opens on ANY audio exceeding the threshold). You could also employ a similar circuit for the amplitude tracking, too, so that the transient responses outputted get "mushed" a bit for a general level response.
But for extracting drum machine signals...that's a bit beyond the AE scope. For one thing, you'd need to extract your specific "clock-source" sound from everything else. Secondly, whatever does this needs to output something that either can be used as, or can be worked with with a device such as a Time Bandit, to derive the actual clock. The sort of device I use here for that is the model up from this: www.ebay.com/itm/Wave-Analyzer-Quantech-Laboratories-1960s/114433889846?hash=item1aa4ca9636%3Ag%3AopkAAOSwLRxfQ%7EPq&LH_ItemCondition=4 which has a 1 Hz filter bandwidth, which can extract a pulse under EXTREMELY tight circumstances. However, this model with its 10 Hz passband would also work here, although that bandwidth is more suited to selecting higher frequency sounds like snares, hats, etc. |
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Post by rockysmalls on Oct 1, 2020 10:48:34 GMT
Definitely needed, to be sure. However, it should be possible to put both modes of envelope following behind the same panel. The really pissy one is, of course, amplitude tracking...because it's necessary to fudge the precision just a TAD because of the nature of the circuit. But the gate output...that's easy! Just employ a basic comparator circuit with a "threshold level" control and maybe a bit of a release delay that can be switched in to make the gate response either high-precision (every transient gets tracked) or low-precision (individual transients aren't tracked exactly, and the gate opens on ANY audio exceeding the threshold). You could also employ a similar circuit for the amplitude tracking, too, so that the transient responses outputted get "mushed" a bit for a general level response.
But for extracting drum machine signals...that's a bit beyond the AE scope. For one thing, you'd need to extract your specific "clock-source" sound from everything else. Secondly, whatever does this needs to output something that either can be used as, or can be worked with with a device such as a Time Bandit, to derive the actual clock. The sort of device I use here for that is the model up from this: www.ebay.com/itm/Wave-Analyzer-Quantech-Laboratories-1960s/114433889846?hash=item1aa4ca9636%3Ag%3AopkAAOSwLRxfQ%7EPq&LH_ItemCondition=4 which has a 1 Hz filter bandwidth, which can extract a pulse under EXTREMELY tight circumstances. However, this model with its 10 Hz passband would also work here, although that bandwidth is more suited to selecting higher frequency sounds like snares, hats, etc. well, personally I don’t need it to ‘extract’ particular drum sounds from the whole output... just treat , say, the rimshot from its own individual output as a trigger.. i have a TT-606 which annoyingly doesn’t have the two trigger outs that the original 606 has (boo!) BUT does have individual outs for each sound (hurray!) i’m still trying to work out if the new quantizer module could be fooled into treating high gain audio as cv and use the triggers on that.. admin i wonder if you have that module yet and could try an experiment or two with short sharp sounds fed into it and see if a gate trigger can be achieved? |
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Post by admin on Oct 1, 2020 11:07:19 GMT
i’m still trying to work out if the new quantizer module could be fooled into treating high gain audio as cv and use the triggers on that.. admin i wonder if you have that module yet and could try an experiment or two with short sharp sounds fed into it and see if a gate trigger can be achieved? I tried this just now and the answer is yes (kind of). The best result was achieved from the output of a VCA with a super short ENV and (surprise) NO input. Feeding a high pitched OSC into the VCA with the same short ENV still gave triggers, but they were a bit messier and skipped beats. So YMMV ... |
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Post by rockysmalls on Oct 1, 2020 12:38:02 GMT
i’m still trying to work out if the new quantizer module could be fooled into treating high gain audio as cv and use the triggers on that.. admin i wonder if you have that module yet and could try an experiment or two with short sharp sounds fed into it and see if a gate trigger can be achieved? I tried this just now and the answer is yes (kind of). The best result was achieved from the output of a VCA with a super short ENV and (surprise) NO input. Feeding a high pitched OSC into the VCA with the same short ENV still gave triggers, but they were a bit messier and skipped beats. So YMMV ... hey thanks Carsten.. this is food for thought .. the quantizer has been in and out of my next order shopping list since it appeared even though i don’t have so much use for the modal quantizing the trigger capability intrigues me.. i guess it’s now firmly back in the basket. not so cheap as a module ( in AE terms that is ;-] ) but at least its only 1u!! .. happy face. |
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Post by rockysmalls on Oct 1, 2020 13:28:22 GMT
I think you can use some of the CMOS logic chips to create a square pulse from an audio signal. yes... i guess i should perhaps experiment with the Nand/and/xor a bit.. there is also the possibility the LoPag or even the Slew/Edge might be able to fudge this for me... hopefully i’ll get a bit of time today to try these ideas out. tanks for yr input. |
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Post by MikMo on Oct 1, 2020 14:09:25 GMT
Yes adding 5V to one AND input and an audio signal to the other ought to put out a square pulse, at least if the audio signal is loud enough
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Post by rockysmalls on Oct 1, 2020 14:32:23 GMT
Yes adding 5V to one AND input and an audio signal to the other ought to put out a square pulse, at least if the audio signal is loud enough thanks for the 5v tip  |
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Post by rockysmalls on Oct 1, 2020 14:34:38 GMT
i’m still trying to work out if the new quantizer module could be fooled into treating high gain audio as cv and use the triggers on that.. admin i wonder if you have that module yet and could try an experiment or two with short sharp sounds fed into it and see if a gate trigger can be achieved? I tried this just now and the answer is yes (kind of). The best result was achieved from the output of a VCA with a super short ENV and (surprise) NO input. Feeding a high pitched OSC into the VCA with the same short ENV still gave triggers, but they were a bit messier and skipped beats. So YMMV ... just a thought.. to clarify... do you have the newer 2vca with the switchable dc/audio .. and did you have it on DC? i only have the legacy 2VCA at the moment.. |
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Post by admin on Oct 1, 2020 22:43:48 GMT
just a thought.. to clarify... do you have the newer 2vca with the switchable dc/audio .. and did you have it on DC? i only have the legacy 2VCA at the moment.. I do have the switch on the VCA and I had it set to AUDIO. |
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Post by rockysmalls on Oct 2, 2020 21:01:10 GMT
just a thought.. to clarify... do you have the newer 2vca with the switchable dc/audio .. and did you have it on DC? i only have the legacy 2VCA at the moment.. I do have the switch on the VCA and I had it set to AUDIO. Well... Had a blast trying things out ... I tried a variation of MikMo ‘s suggestion .. but i thought i would use the 3VCSwitch .. mainly because it has a gate AND it already has the 5v+ output on the module .. a very short patch to the A input. This way needed the SignalAmp to boost the Drum Machine rimshot output enough to gate the switcher and produce the 5v pulse... not bad BUT.. SIMPLEST was actually a 1 module solution... drum roll .... the lovely discontinued STEP10 !! it seems the clock input on the Step10 module is quite sensitive... in fact so sensitive I had to dial the seperate Rimshot output from the drum machine right down ( no Amping necessary ) until it clocked steadily with the rim shot pattern.. set to 8 or 10 steps with every step set to ON for a steady click.. but also this way you can make ‘sort of’ polyrhythmic triggers by using the 10 steps with certain triggers switched to off plus an odd number of rimshot trigger outs from the drum machine... Must get back to it and see if the Topograph clock in might be equally sensitive to audio clicks... Thanks admin MikMo namke & Lugia for yr inputs... |
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Post by MikMo on Oct 3, 2020 16:42:40 GMT
well - just goes to show that you should never underestimate a discontinued module. I have both the Step10 and the TRIQ64 i my system
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Post by Gaëtan on Oct 3, 2020 20:28:30 GMT
Haven't tried it, but the SLEW/EDGE can behave as an envelope follower, so... maybe ?
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Post by tIB on Oct 3, 2020 21:30:12 GMT
Pretty sure if you amp the signal with a 2signal amp it would then trigger the env too. I've had my axoloti triggering envelopes this way.
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