Quick question for axolotl AE users

I have a very on/off relationship with the Axoloti — I bought it years ago (thought it looked great), but found the software patching program to be horrible and put it back in its box! I built the front-panel kit a couple of months ago and played briefly with it again, but I still don't like the UI

Maybe I need to give it another chance?!

Agreed - the Axo programming environment is awful. That said, this thread has inspired me to dig it out and give it another shot. 

I had a patch blocks setup some years back - I think they did a V2 of what I had. It was pretty fun but it didn't stick around, I forget exactly why... at one point I was interfacing them sith a little Buchla system.

I'm dreadful at using computers for music - total buzzkill for me. Most of the computer based stuff I've used gets ignored. I only bought the axoloti to stop me buying another Nord G2 (third time's a charm!) - I figured if I couldn't bring myself to patch that I wouldn't be bothered to turn on the G2 either... Axo sat in a box for the best part of a year before I got to it.

I'm glad I did though, if only for the two MPE patches I'm playing/tweaking with the sensel morph... funny how that fell into place; I've translated a live set I used the Linnstrument for last year into appropriate scales on the morph, which I'm currently jamming over percussive stuff on the AE system. It's a great pairing and the first time I've managed to incorporate live playing with patching modular in a live setup. I'm hoping to get out and play with it at some point, and until I do enjoy where the approach takes me...

Patching the Axoloti core hasn't stopped me wanting a G2 again though unfortunately - quite the opposite as the editting is so much worse. Maybe the Akso is worth a try first...

I've been serially disappointed by these devices that hook up for programming - except for the first one that I bought.

I bought some Patchblocks and they promised much, but delivered little. I did manage to make a simple FM synth and so determined was I to get some value from them that I even recorded a track using that synth. The blocks were difficult to mount and the UI was buggy and slow. Then they seemed to get bored and brought out their Minijam series, then they sold the technology and shut up shop. I did do some interesting MIDI filtering and even a simple sequencer, but there are easier ways of doing all of those things.

Then I bought an Axoloti Core, and I even made a nice little perspex enclosure for it. Oooo it looked nice. It worked to a fashion, although I never did get it to accept everything that I'd created and that I thought I'd saved correctly. The UI was OK, if not a little difficult. Then I noticed some discontent on the user forum and I stopped being that interested. I tried hard, but sitting staring at a screen of config files etc. isn't my idea of making music. Again, I did some nice generatve things on it, but there were easier ways of doing that. I tested out my concept of a Klein Bottle Effects Processor - it worked, but I found an easier way of doing that as well.

Now I see that there is a new variant - the Akso. I'm not going down that road again. It's probably going to be really good, but I'm now thinking that I don't have a problem that I need one to solve. I would enjoy the initial rush of huge new plains to explore, then I would think that I could likely do it more easily in another way.

It's not that I'm unable to "code", I've been programming in various languages since the early 80's and I'm not bad at grasping most concepts. But this isn't really "coding", at the top level it's just simple drag 'n' drop with a bit of virtual wiring up. It's not that I don't get DSP, I've been poking away at that for quite a while as well, but it's not that either really. I think it's just that I don't think I get enough payback (and I don't mind working for it) when it finally comes. I've come to realise that I like that level of technology and I enjoy making music - maybe just not at the same time  Also, I'm probably not adventurous enough to try something that can't be done more easily elsewhere, which is really the point of these devices perhaps...?

I know there are other variants of this type of music technology and some people do amazing things with them, but I just don't know if I want to invest time again.

Oh yes, the first purchase was an original Nord Modular, which I still have. I played that live, and to good effect, and it just worked. It felt like a piece of musical equipment, with some technology behind it. Rather than a piece of music technology. Even the UI seemed great at the time as it just worked and you heard the changes.

I think this is what keeps me away from modules such as GRAINS. I can see myself toying with technology, rather than making what passes for my music.

I didn't sell my Nord Modular and I'll probably not sell my Patchblocks or Axolti Core, but I don't think I'll add to the collection again. I'll also likely build a "digital" AE row, with lots of goodies. I just need to learn to be more adventurous... maybe, perhaps...?

I think its very easy (at least for me) to get a bit overwhelmed with all these possibilities,
there are so many great things out there, and they all need time investment.

I love coding, so I enjoy playing and creating things with these tools, but its very easy to get carried away, and realize I've spent many hours coding.
regardless of how things are programmed, it is time consuming to do anything worthwhile, and there is a time investment upfront in learning it.

for me, I now try to be more focused,  I view these things as 'problem solvers'.... what am i trying to achieve?
its no longer enough, for me to daydream about what I might do with it  

these things inexpensive enough (imho) that if i can create ONE thing that I use regularly for it, then its cost has been offset.
that could be midi routing, creative midi, audio fx, synth, mpe synth - doesn't really matter.


as for axoloti vs others, its fine - its extremely efficient, low power (mA) and instant on,
I think more on the 'instrument builder' end of the spectrum, compare to something like the organelle which is more 'multi use'

patching, its ok, frankly no less intuitive that pure data when you understand it (there are plenty of 'gotchas' in PD too ) 
its main strength however, is the ease to create new C++ objects with it.
this is perhaps 'personal' as with axo, pure data etc, i tend to write the dsp/logic/controller in  C++ and just use the graphics ui as 'glue' 


perhaps because of this Akso, doesn't really interest me at all... kind of feels like 'done that, lets move on'
I'm finding the GUI patching build gets in the way really, if i want to use a GUI glue, id prefer to use pure data as its cross-platform.
but generally id prefer to write the code in straight C/C++, and for high level stuff i prefer Supercollider as its text based.
so I'm using things like Daisy, or Bela/rPI derivatives.

so for me, Akso solves the wrong problem, hardware on Axoloti was fine.
rather it needed more developers and development on the software editor side.
but the reason that was not done, is the same old problem - software development is very time consuming, and for axoloti there was no money in it, unlike the hardware side.
this is my other slight dilemma with Akso, it takes the only revenue stream away from the software developer (Johannes @ Axoloti), 
so my fear is it creates even less motivation for Johannes to complete axoloti 2.0 firmware

who is going to take it forward?  the guy behind Akso, has not done anything on this front so far.


finally the Organelle, changed my view a little bit in this area...
I realized, I enjoyed sharing my efforts with others, i guess if you spend many hours developing something, knowing a whole bunch of people are going to use it, makes it feel more 'worthwhile'.
and that's where there is an issue with things like Axoloti/Bela/arduino - they don't have a form factor, or UI.
so you cannot build 'finished' instruments for end-users... and that's a big missing element for me.

(I tried to get Johannes to release his axoloti controller (I've got a couple of prototypes he made) , to try to 'solve' this issue, and make axoloti more appealing to a wider user base... but unfortunately it never happened.)




so for now, I've moved on, Daisy, Arduino, Bela and the SSP are where my main efforts lie at the moment.

I've got a few things that work nicely on my Axolotis, and I still break them out for a few things.
(I've one outstanding task, to create an axoloti for a enclosure with pots/oled i bought - so that needs to be 'utilized')

thanks



Axoloti is a pretty ambitious project for one person.. Johannes developed the hardware, the software, the firmware - does all the shipping and support.

I helped him on a few things, whilst he was fulfilling the orders for the original Indigigo campaign, and we were talking about how it was going...

during that time he had to build special test rigs for the boards, so he could automatically flash them, and then run them through hardware tests to check all the ports etc were working...
this was a huge effort in itself - but he had to do it, since he was shipping so many boards - if he had a high failure rate, the refunding/replacing would have wiped him out.

that was the problem with his price point, it covers perhaps the hardware costs, but not really the software....

I fear AKSO will find similar....

This is why I tried to get Johannes into some 'higher value' products, e.g. make it a full featured standalone synth/fx for musicians (like Organelle) , or to make a Eurorack version
to give him some way to fund the development costs.
but his background is in the maker community, so really was more keen/focused on the Arduino model, for the DIY community.



yes, Organelle is a USB midi host - so can host things like Linnstrument.

I implemented MPE in Orac on the Organelle.... and I did create a few patches that were MPE enabled, based on the Mutable Instruments code which I ported to Pure Data externals.
creating MPE enabled patches in pure data is not that difficult , theres only a couple of gotchas - my patches I guess could be used as a starting point (*)



I'd love to do more, but then I got a bit tied up into modular ... so its these days all a matter of finding time, so many projects on the go!




(*) I've not looked but perhaps someone has written an external to simplify this now... e.g. Max/MSP now has explicit MPE support, so perhaps someone in PD community has done something similar?

I was told that the Nord modular nearly bankrupted Nord (due to support costs) - hence why it was discontinued to never be repeated.

its a tricky area for companies, as programmers typically require much more 'support' which is also more specialized/technical than most products, that obviously makes it time consuming/expensive to support. hence why the community aspect is so vital, to alleviate this some what  from the company.


for sure though, i share the dilemma of how much time for programming vs music...
I did consider the Zoia at one point for this reason.. its flexible, but closed source - so would limit my 'involvement'