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Post by tIB on May 28, 2020 21:42:05 GMT
System arrived earlier - spent way too long trying to decide on the perfect layout before settling on a very imperfect one so I could make some noise. Really impressed with what Robert has out together - the starter system package is superb as is the build quality, which has exceeded my expectations. Had a bit of fun with the system this evening but look forward to getting stuck in proper in the coming days... so far so happy!
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Post by admin on May 28, 2020 23:02:10 GMT
There is no perfect layout! That's what the cables are for  Seriously, there are so many ways to layout modules and just when you put everything in place after the nth iteration on the Grid ... you find that in practice it doesn't work and you grab those green cables again  After having gone through this a number of times I now think I could just as well arrange my modules alphabetically and still get the same workflow. |
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Post by tIB on May 29, 2020 7:16:21 GMT
Ill definitely find the layout that works best for me, though in putting it all together I decided I didn't fancy pulling out almost a full row to move them all one place to the right to accommodate the module I forgot to place where I wanted it! I'm used to a certain layout approach so I want to retain it in ae land... but really right now noise making is priority!
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Post by martynaudio on May 29, 2020 8:25:31 GMT
the only thing I've found when putting my system together was being able to access more 'playable' controls was a big help, so having filters and mixers easily accessible etc - other than that, I agree anything goes!
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Post by sycophante on May 29, 2020 8:32:33 GMT
System arrived earlier - spent way too long trying to decide on the perfect layout before settling on a very imperfect one so I could make some noise. Really impressed with what Robert has out together - the starter system package is superb as is the build quality, which has exceeded my expectations. Had a bit of fun with the system this evening but look forward to getting stuck in proper in the coming days... so far so happy!insert quote here I feel you! when I received my second rack I spent an hour laying out my modules, and then I was like "meh" And yeah I bought an AE system thinking a good sound was achievable,, but in turned it is much more like a default setting ^^ |
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Post by tIB on May 29, 2020 15:53:18 GMT
Half way through day one on the system - have to say I'm very impressed so far!
From a design point of view there are plenty of clever approaches in this system - I'm a big fan of systems put together by an individual designer and the AE approach is another example of a really clever integration within the decided format. I like the format more than I thought I might too - I'm not having drop outs when patching up as I thought I might, and the patch points, while tiny, aren't as tricky as I remember the tinysizer being - possibly a little less densely packed in? Its been a while with that so I forget I the headers were single or double row.
Downsides so far aren't too bad - my sv filter isn't behaving correctly so I've got in touch with Robert and the power lead cable length is very short. I'll get onto sound later...
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Post by tIB on May 29, 2020 23:23:54 GMT
Sound wise while I'm happy, if I take the form factor and cost away from things I'm probably not blown away. Don't get me wrong, it's more than adequate (and I'm fussy) ,while but while it has its own charm, if I'm honest I was probably hoping for more from a few bits: the FM response of the oscs isn't quite there for me and feels a bit stifled (maybe new FM oscs are the way to go on that front), the wasp filter isn't quite what I remember from previous wasp filters and I was hoping for a little more from the wavefolder.
That's not say that (slightly dodgy sv filter aside) there is anything wrong with the system - there are plenty of positives and I'm having a blast getting to know it, but from a sound perspective the posts on here comparing things like the 2oscd to the Buchla 258 are off the mark. The 2env is definitely not a USG either. Still, I could have perhaps 20 oscillators and 2envs for a 258 and a quad slope so that has to count for something!
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Post by admin on May 29, 2020 23:43:57 GMT
I hear you, but it’s probably not quite fair to compare the Buchla 258 which is about $1,200 AUD to the AE system which gives you 30 modules for that price.
We’ve discussed this many times on the forum and every comparison will eventually be on a very subjective level. If I was driving a Jaguar everyday I might not enjoy the feel of a 20 year old Camry ... but currently that’s all I’ve got and it’s in pretty good shape for its age and takes me from A to B just fine.
The AE system has and still is geared mostly for people that want to get started with modular synthesis without dipping into their mortgage to afford Eurorack or even Buchla. It’s also incredibly portable and I don’t think any true modular system can be taken as easily outdoors and run on a battery pack.
For sound experiments I love the AE and it’s also (being my first ever synth) the instrument I’m most comfortable with. But it has limitations and I have invested in other synths to get the sounds that the AE can’t do. I don’t think the AE was ever meant to be the one and only synth to replace all other.
But as I said, all pretty subjective and I’m really glad to hear your opinion ... as the AE system grows and develops over time, I’m sure some of the issues that you’ve raised will be addressed in the future. Remember it’s only 3 years old!
I hope I’m not treading on anyone’s toes and not intend at all to stifle discussions of this sort, just wanted to offer some perspective.
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Post by tIB on May 30, 2020 6:23:23 GMT
I hear you, but it’s probably not quite fair to compare the Buchla 258 which is about $1,200 AUD to the AE system which gives you 30 modules for that price. We’ve discussed this many times on the forum and every comparison will eventually be on a very subjective level. If I was driving a Jaguar everyday I might not enjoy the feel of a 20 year old Camry ... but currently that’s all I’ve got and it’s in pretty good shape for its age and takes me from A to B just fine. The AE system has and still is geared mostly for people that want to get started with modular synthesis without dipping into their mortgage to afford Eurorack or even Buchla. It’s also incredibly portable and I don’t think any true modular system can be taken as easily outdoors and run on a battery pack. For sound experiments I love the AE and it’s also (being my first ever synth) the instrument I’m most comfortable with. But it has limitations and I have invested in other synths to get the sounds that the AE can’t do. I don’t think the AE was ever meant to be the one and only synth to replace all other. But as I said, all pretty subjective and I’m really glad to hear your opinion ... as the AE system grows and develops over time, I’m sure some of the issues that you’ve raised will be addressed in the future. Remember it’s only 3 years old! I hope I’m not treading on anyone’s toes and not intend at all to stifle discussions of this sort, just wanted to offer some perspective. I didn't take your comments as stifling at all, and I agree with you - the 258 comparison is a silly one on a number of levels before you even get to the audio side of things. I should add I didn't get into the format because I expected to be able to recreate the sounds of classic Buchla, so I'm not at all disappointed in that regard. You touch on one of the reasons, along with supporting Roberts work, I got into the format too - plan is to get enough of a system together to have a nicely portable live rig so playing out is less of a chore. And while I might like a bit more bite in my wavefolding and a lot more depth to my oscillator FM these are not deal-breakers - I'm very pleased with the system so far overall, I'm probably just going to listen a lot more carefully to demos before buying my next round of modules. (Or maybe not - at these prices reselling at 75% isn't going to be too much of a hit!) Hoping to get some more hours in today so I'll focus on the things I really like today and will say some more later... there is lots to like too! |
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Post by Lugia on May 30, 2020 17:23:56 GMT
I hear you, but it’s probably not quite fair to compare the Buchla 258 which is about $1,200 AUD to the AE system which gives you 30 modules for that price. I didn't take your comments as stifling at all, and I agree with you - the 258 comparison is a silly one on a number of levels before you even get to the audio side of things. Ah, that would be me. And note: I didn't compare the VCO itself to the 258. Instead, Gargantua contains a repeated _set_ of modules: 2OSC/d, 2 x VCO, 2VCA, WAVEFOLDER, and MIXER 4/4. There are six of these sets, intended to behave in a manner LIKE a Buchla 258...but, yes, not _exactly_ like that. Instead, the idea was to replicate the complex VCO behavior that I got used to with the 258 when using it many years ago, and the module combination does do a pretty good job at getting me into that ballpark. Plus, since this is all built up out of "primitives", it makes it easy enough to arrive at FM configurations that the 258 could NOT do...particularly thanks to co-locating those VCAs in the configuration. |
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Post by tIB on May 30, 2020 19:15:08 GMT
I didn't take your comments as stifling at all, and I agree with you - the 258 comparison is a silly one on a number of levels before you even get to the audio side of things. Ah, that would be me. And note: I didn't compare the VCO itself to the 258. Instead, Gargantua contains a repeated _set_ of modules: 2OSC/d, 2 x VCO, 2VCA, WAVEFOLDER, and MIXER 4/4. There are six of these sets, intended to behave in a manner LIKE a Buchla 258...but, yes, not _exactly_ like that. Instead, the idea was to replicate the complex VCO behavior that I got used to with the 258 when using it many years ago, and the module combination does do a pretty good job at getting me into that ballpark. Plus, since this is all built up out of "primitives", it makes it easy enough to arrive at FM configurations that the 258 could NOT do...particularly thanks to co-locating those VCAs in the configuration. I think I probably misunderstood you - I thought you were suggesting your group of modules (I understood that part) would get you in the same sonic territory as the Buchla. Functionality wise yes you can patch most of that in, but sound wise I don't think so. I also think you are referring to the 259 - the 258 is a fairly simple dual oscillator, without the complex cross modulation, which cross-fades a sin to either saw or square, depending on which oscillator it is. It's known for its incredible FM response, whichbi wouldn't describe as a strength of the two oscillators in ae format I've tried. If the new one gets even half way there in terms of FM response we are in for a treat. Anyhow, I put some of the recordings I'd made through a couple of effects and was really pleased with what I got - for all my nitpicking it's sounding fantastic! |
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Post by tIB on May 31, 2020 21:44:33 GMT
I've had a blast getting to know my little system this weekend - there's something special about learning new systems where everything leads to some discovery. I've been pressing record lots and pulling out weird little sketches - sounding great. While I highlighted a few shortcomings earlier it has to be said I'm incredibly impressed with what Robert has put together, and I've no doubt that I've done the right thing in jumping in this little club. Its a super system and I'm very hopeful that it will fill the gap of highly portable and capable modular I can hopefully jam enough patch variation out of to fill a 30 minute set with...
With that in mind I'll now need to think on how to flesh out the 2 row... I'll certainly need some CV sequencing (probably the new 8 step) and some more utilities... hopefully I can get some fun stuff in too before the inevitable upgrade to row three!
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Post by slowscape on Jun 1, 2020 20:56:37 GMT
martynaudio that's actually a really good idea on layout -- focusing on playability. I hadn't thought of that! I also found it very helpful to print my grid layout and have a physical copy next to me as I put things together
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Post by tIB on Jun 6, 2020 15:26:33 GMT
I appreciate I'm preaching to the converted here but wow, a week in and I'm blown away. Its a bit like having a tiny doepfer system for a third of the price... and it can sound so massive!
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Post by tIB on Jun 6, 2020 16:08:20 GMT
I make the doepfer comparison due to its reputation for being somewhat vanilla in terms of sound , as well as the uniformity of design and modular-modular approach (what I mean by that is if you want it you have to patch it - its all there for you but there's very little internally routed). And there's nothing wrong with vanilla - it's a classic for a reason!
With the ae, while I maintain the oscs I have aren't particularly exciting (there are other sound generators/oscs that I think will be), the whole things comes to life when I hit the spring reverb and delay. I'm not sure I can imagine a patch where I'm not hammering them with this system!
So yes, very pleased - I'm just trying to work out how big to go really. I'm enjoying the limitations of the two row setup but planned to go to three at some point. Perhaps a 2x20 might be a better compromise though I'd need to check it will fit in my gig case... I guess I'll fill this 2x16 first and then figure it out.
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Post by tIB on Jul 10, 2020 10:41:43 GMT
Little update here - got stuck in a patch for a few weeks, but ended up moving on from it by taking it to work and letting a bunch of 11 year olds loose on the system. They had a blast and a couple of them had a really good ear for it.
In other news I've detoured from original plans and rounded out the current system with a multifx, drum module and another MMDIV (so I can make a sequencer out of it with the 4att mix and not lose riddim power). Getting to the point where I can see more of a use for the trig16 too so a third row is probably inevitable at some point, though I may switch things in and out of the two row initially just to see how it fits.
Modded a peli style case too, so I now have two (full) rows, a spring tank and self contained power ready to go... detachable lid too which I may fill out with a couple of bits (the rather wonderful Oi Kant perhaps being one of them). Basically looking for a really powerful little mobile setup for playing out with... the AE ticks all the boxes. The good and slightly dangerous news is that the case I'm using could house another row... Future plans involve algodrone, fmosc,a quantiser and one of the sequencers...
Fun!
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Post by slowscape on Jul 10, 2020 18:37:27 GMT
Moving on from a patch -- that's really the trick. Sounds like you found a great way to solve that dilemma  |
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Post by tIB on Jul 10, 2020 22:01:17 GMT
Moving on from a patch -- that's really the trick. Sounds like you found a great way to solve that dilemma Usually pressing record is enough but in this case I couldn't nail it and was addicted to the little techno machine I'd made. The only solution was 11 year olds! |
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Post by rodney on Jul 14, 2020 22:59:01 GMT
At the end of the day, the only perfect layout of modules is to have LOTS of green patch cables - although, now I'm seeing systems that will need longer ones than that (I'm lookin at you frix  ) |
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Post by MikMo on Jul 15, 2020 9:49:36 GMT
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Post by frix on Jul 15, 2020 20:46:32 GMT
At the end of the day, the only perfect layout of modules is to have LOTS of green patch cables - although, now I'm seeing systems that will need longer ones than that (I'm lookin at you frix ) in my opinion, a good fitting consists of having env, adsr and mixer on the sides, for immediate control. at the center of the system the modules with less control, so as not to have problems with the cables. And of course, a lot of red and green cables Sorry for my bad english guys... |
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Post by rodney on Jul 18, 2020 22:48:13 GMT
Yes, I'm beginning to see that. I'm probably going to add joysticks on the left and right, plus some buttons and attenuators for live performance. Then again, my rack will be close to full when the current order arrives from Robert and his little elves.
I'm also thinking of some quick release clip ideas for taming wild cables when performing. The simplest hack for this is to loosen the occasional black screw on the panel and wrap a piece of wire cable tie around it.
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Post by tIB on Jul 27, 2020 18:29:09 GMT
Meanwhile I've got a 2signalamp on the way so I can pipe an axoloti into the AE, controlled by sensel morph... Should be fun!
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Post by tIB on Jul 29, 2020 7:00:49 GMT
Here's where I'm up to - note the terrible hacking of the 2signalamp. Next step is to figure out patch changes on the axoloti...  |
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