persy
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Post by persy on Mar 6, 2020 9:00:03 GMT
i noticed in one of 5th volt's videos he uses the hpamp output direct to his soundcard. i dont have an hpamp module and was wondering if there is a difference in sound quality when using it instead of the master i/o?
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Post by spacedog on Mar 6, 2020 9:22:36 GMT
i noticed in one of 5th volt's videos he uses the hpamp output direct to his soundcard. i dont have an hpamp module and was wondering if there is a difference in sound quality when using it instead of the master i/o? You're completely OK with using the I/O from the MASTER module. The HPAMP has the advantage of providing the output on one 3.5mm stereo connector (TRS), whereas the MASTER is via two 3.5mm mono connectors (TS). Using the MASTER (or 4I/O) you may need to combine into a stereo input on your recording device; alternatively, using the HPAMP, you might need to split out into two mono inputs. At this point, you can just use whichever is more convenient. The MASTER or 4I/O connectors are the ones you should use for input to your audio interface as there are differences between how the signal is presented at the outputs of a headphone amplifier and a line level amplifier. Although, you're generally OK if you're careful with levels - just listen for distortion. The HPAMP is, in my opinion, for monitoring quick setups live without sending this to the main outputs, then once you've got it right you patch that sound into the main mix as required. Also, it's great for sitting with the AE as a standalone system and just playing or learning, especially with the MULTIFX, which will give you a sound more interesting to your ears - unless you like a dry sound Basically, use what works for your setup, and use your ears. Always start with low levels.
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Post by admin on Mar 6, 2020 10:01:29 GMT
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persy
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Post by persy on Mar 6, 2020 18:49:40 GMT
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Lugia
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Post by Lugia on Mar 6, 2020 23:22:14 GMT
Hmmm...makes me think that, at some point, we might benefit from a pro-grade stereo output module. Nothing powered, but a nice passive, transformer-balanced pair with either TRS or XLR (if they fit!) connectors and a passive stereo level pot. Drop a couple of nice Cinemags in there, and voila!
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persy
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Post by persy on Mar 7, 2020 2:21:25 GMT
Hmmm...makes me think that, at some point, we might benefit from a pro-grade stereo output module. Nothing powered, but a nice passive, transformer-balanced pair with either TRS or XLR (if they fit!) connectors and a passive stereo level pot. Drop a couple of nice Cinemags in there, and voila! thats why i asked. i have an early system and i thought maybe the hpamp had improved output performance over the master i/o. mini xlr would probably fit no problem.
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Post by spacedog on Mar 7, 2020 9:52:57 GMT
Hmmm...makes me think that, at some point, we might benefit from a pro-grade stereo output module. Nothing powered, but a nice passive, transformer-balanced pair with either TRS or XLR (if they fit!) connectors and a passive stereo level pot. Drop a couple of nice Cinemags in there, and voila! thats why i asked. i have an early system and i thought maybe the hpamp had improved output performance over the master i/o. mini xlr would probably fit no problem. If you want TRS balanced outputs then, for a small sum, you can buy audio isolation transformers, e.g. Behringer HD400. These not only give you balanced TRS outputs, but they also can remove ground loop problems. Personally, I found these units to be a good investment.
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Post by NightMachines on Mar 7, 2020 23:28:56 GMT
The 4I/O offers two stereo TRS sockets as well, by the way If you only plug a TRS jack into sockets 1 and 3, leaving 2 and 4 empty, they will connect to the 1/2 and 3/4 pins. They’re just not amplified for headphones.
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Post by admin on Mar 8, 2020 4:09:23 GMT
Yes, I use the 4/I/O module for audio output from my big system. Only when I make a video with the AE Mini do I use the HPAmp for audio out. I find that the HPAmp adds quite a bit of noise, maybe it's because of the amplification?
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Post by spacedog on Mar 8, 2020 10:02:30 GMT
Yes, I use the 4/I/O module for audio output from my big system. Only when I make a video with the AE Mini do I use the HPAmp for audio out. I find that the HPAmp adds quite a bit of noise, maybe it's because of the amplification? I forgot about the stereo outputs on the 4I/O, mainly as I never use them. Everything that emerges from my AE Modular is mono, and I use a few (or CV) and only becomes stereo once it passes through the effects and then mixer on its way to being recorded. I am always impressed when I hear someone getting a whole performance out of the AE Modular. I am quite lazy and I use a few different synths to achieve the sound(s) that I want, although it is still a live performance mixed down to stereo. A personal challenge for me will be to create a full performance on the AE Modular... which does mean that I will need the HPAMP, and I have just enough space. It's an interesting discussion from a good question, which proves that they are no silly questions, just interesting answers.
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persy
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Post by persy on Mar 8, 2020 17:47:46 GMT
a dedicated high quality output module would be a nice addition. hpamp and balanced i/o's all in one module with some LED metering. mini xlr would be kind of cool to use considering the AE format size. something like - joranalogue.com/products/transmit-2
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Post by spacedog on Mar 8, 2020 18:26:23 GMT
a dedicated high quality output module would be a nice addition. hpamp and balanced i/o's all in one module with some LED metering. mini xlr would be kind of cool to use considering the AE format size. something like - joranalogue.com/products/transmit-2Mmmmm, whilst it's a nice idea, I'm not sure it would fit physcially and it wouldn't be cheap. It could take up a lot of AE real estate and could all be done outside of the modular. I do send my modular outputs to a small mixer (with external effects) and then through the audio transformer and I believe that I can get a reasonable sound quality. Just my opinion, but I would rather buy some of those things from a third party (as indeed I do). Of course, you could always hook up some Eurorack effects and one of those modules and use that as your final output stage
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persy
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Post by persy on Mar 8, 2020 19:51:32 GMT
spacedog i would have to argue that having separate modules for headphone and i/o also takes up its fair share of space. depth-wise you may be right that there may not be enough room. i do think mini xlr's will fit. the issue would be if they are mountable on the ae panel material. if it could all be done in a 2 space module that would be a pretty good use of space. if it could be done for $150 or less i'd be ok with that. i think as the system evolves it'd be nice to have premium modules at a slightly higher price point.
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Post by spacedog on Mar 8, 2020 20:03:32 GMT
spacedog i would have to argue that having separate modules for headphone and i/o also takes up its fair share of space. depth-wise you may be right that there may not be enough room. i do think mini xlr's will fit. the issue would be if they are mountable on the ae panel material. if it could all be done in a 2 space module that would be a pretty good use of space. if it could be done for $150 or less i'd be ok with that. i think as the system evolves it'd be nice to have premium modules at a slightly higher price point. You've opened up a very interesting discussion on evolution, the future and module price points. Time for me to step aside, I think, as my vision for this system is slightly different and I'd be interested in what others think.
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persy
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Post by persy on Mar 8, 2020 20:27:29 GMT
spacedog no need to step aside. you're input has made this conversation what it is and i appreciate the dialog. by "premium modules" i want to clarify that i meant offering some premium modules as well, not that the whole ae system should evolve to a higher price point in general. i think we all share the belief that this is supposed to be an affordable option. look at eurorack early on.. it was the affordable option and now it has many module options at a wide range of prices. that, of course, comes down to supply and demand as eurorack has become the standard but i still think it would be nice to have some premium offerings in ae land.. sample slicer, complex vco, high quality i/o, ect.
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Post by spacedog on Mar 8, 2020 21:53:46 GMT
spacedog no need to step aside. you're input has made this conversation what it is and i appreciate the dialog. by "premium modules" i want to clarify that i meant offering some premium modules as well, not that the whole ae system should evolve to a higher price point in general. i think we all share the belief that this is supposed to be an affordable option. look at eurorack early on.. it was the affordable option and now it has many module options at a wide range of prices. that, of course, comes down to supply and demand as eurorack has become the standard but i still think it would be nice to have some premium offerings in ae land.. sample slicer, complex vco, high quality i/o, ect. Apologies, this can be a blunt instrument, especially without emoticons (not sure how to get them on my phone). What I was failing to say was that I am interested in the views of others as it is an interesting topic and rather than push a view, I am keen to know how others see the format developing. I see it as complementary to the higher end equipment, which doesn't preclude more expensive items if the market is there. Still on a phone, so I'll do it the old way :-)
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Lugia
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Post by Lugia on Mar 8, 2020 22:06:17 GMT
I think that a high-end output module for the AE need not be all that prohibitive, price-wise. And the design can still work in the AE form factor. Vide:
First up, look here: cinemag.biz//index.php Cinemag transformers for the sort of purpose we need won't be particularly huge...more like little 1" x 1" or so cans. In fact, don't even bother locating them under the panel, since they often have snazzy metal cans with the Cinemag logo. Having a couple of those sitting in your AE would actually be sorta badass-looking. "Yeeeahh, byoyee...got Cinemags, sounds like da BOMB!" Plus, they're far cheaper than Carnhills, etc. Aaaaaand...with some iron (or nickel, perhaps) in the signal path, you could conceivably drive these into saturation and get that warm, wooly transformer sound as an added perk.
Next, the connectors. Obviously, the Dupont pin groups would stay the same. But for the outputs, something like these would make a lot of sense: www.rean-connectors.com/en/products/rt3mpr And again, they don't cost dearly; the price listed by Mouser for these is $2.29 each, and definitely less for bulk purchases. The "Tiny XLR" is pretty standard these days, as it gets used quite a bit for bodypack mics, and would definitely serve the purposes here.
I see the need for only one control here, also...a passive stereo pad, post-transformers, to give a bit more control over the output levels...especially when doing that saturation trick I note above. Ultimately, this need not be any larger than a single module space, two spaces at worst. Nor should it be all that pricey, even with the Cinemags...at worst, maybe 40-60 EUR. The final determination would sit with Robert, of course...but I do think we would benefit from something like this for studio use. It would kill any noise issues stone-dead, totally isolate the synth from anything creeping in via the output lines, drop the levels, allow a final level adjustment, and give all the potential benefits from iron in the signal path. Plus, it would be a leg-up on Eurorack; while isolation output modules like that do exist in Eurorack, they're uncommon and often pricier than they have any business being. With this as an OEM option for the AE, direct from the factory, I could see this being a very popular option, one which could get even more pro-level penetration for the system.
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persy
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Post by persy on Mar 9, 2020 1:58:32 GMT
spacedog if you are on your phone and want emoticons try switching from mobile to desktop mode and the emoticon option should show when you go to make a post. Lugia hopefully robert will give this some consideration. i was also thinking it could be offered around the same price point as the multi fx module. mini (tiny) xlr's are the way to go since depth is limited. plus, how cool would an LED VU meter be along side the other blinking lights.
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Post by spacedog on Mar 9, 2020 8:59:39 GMT
spacedog if you are on your phone and want emoticons try switching from mobile to desktop mode and the emoticon option should show when you go to make a post. Lugia hopefully robert will give this some consideration. i was also thinking it could be offered around the same price point as the multi fx module. mini (tiny) xlr's are the way to go since depth is limited. plus, how cool would an LED VU meter be along side the other blinking lights.
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Lugia
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Post by Lugia on Mar 10, 2020 2:57:41 GMT
A full meter? Now that's how things get expensive! I'd be comfy with it just being a passive module, frankly, but if there WAS to be metering on it, I think you could make do with just six...ie: a pair of green LEDs for "signal present", a pair of yellows for your 0dB, and a pair of reds for "overload". That way, things are sufficiently vague that the user has to rely more on their ears, and the indicators are just simply there to let you know the overall signal state. And that "overload" is important, as you'd want to know when the transformers were being driven into saturation for that warm, fat "big iron" sound.
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persy
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Post by persy on Mar 11, 2020 1:29:39 GMT
Lugia what i actually had in mind was just 2 vertical rows of 6 or so LED's each for metering but at the end of the day whatever gets the job done is fine with me. i do think it would look cool to have a level indicator bouncing around and admittedly i have a soft spot for aesthetics.
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Post by leytonthorne on Nov 11, 2020 19:31:13 GMT
thats why i asked. i have an early system and i thought maybe the hpamp had improved output performance over the master i/o. mini xlr would probably fit no problem. If you want TRS balanced outputs then, for a small sum, you can buy audio isolation transformers, e.g. Behringer HD400. These not only give you balanced TRS outputs, but they also can remove ground loop problems. Personally, I found these units to be a good investment. I bought the SubZero SZ-DIP2 passive DI box from gear4music, and that works well when it comes to eliminating ground loop noise. For some reason, the issue seems to come from either the DRUMKIT or the 2ATT/CV modules. Anyone else experienced this?
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