gaeel
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Posts: 22
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Post by gaeel on Sept 19, 2018 8:48:05 GMT
In this DIY thread, I posted a video where a small red oscilloscope is visible, it's a DSO138mini, the small variant of the DSO138 It's a very simple oscilloscope that comes as a cheap (I got mine for 15€, VAT and shipping included) kit There's some soldering required to put it together, but nothing too difficult. The hardest part was sorting the resistors, if you don't have a multimeter handy you'll need a resistor code calculator and some patience At the end of it all though, you'll have a tiny oscilloscope that runs on 5V power (mine is powered from the 5V rail in the AEM), and can track a single signal quite well throughout the audio range. I have it set up to display the typical AEM voltages, so before connecting any weird/DIY stuff to the modular, I run it through the oscilloscope and make sure it's within safe ranges It's also useful and fun to see the effect different modules have on the signal, visually I don't know if any of you use an oscilloscope with your synth kit? Do you have any recommendations for other cheap & small scopes? Possibly one that doesn't require soldering for those who don't have an iron?
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Post by NightMachines on Sept 19, 2018 9:01:35 GMT
Thanks for the tip! Cool that it runs on 5V! Do you think one could create an AEM module with it? I.e. mount it behind a cut-out blank panel in the case and add some patch wire sockets for the inputs? I use a VMPE ZeroScope in one of my Eurorack cases, because it's small and I really just want to see waveforms and not precisely measure stuff there. Here's a video of it in action, showing the output of an Ardcore sketch I wrote. It has two inputs, so it can do X-Y waveforms as well. Having that in the AS Modular would be nice too.
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gaeel
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Post by gaeel on Sept 19, 2018 9:08:53 GMT
Do you think one could create an AEM module with it? Yeah, although it's 3U, which I feel might be a bit too wide for just a scope, maybe? Also unlike the ZeroScope, it's only got the one channel, I think a 2 channel scope in a 2U form factor would be ideal
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Post by thetechnobear on Sept 19, 2018 11:39:14 GMT
I'll be honest I had a DSO138 (not mini) , and found it pretty unreliable - the one I had was prebuilt, and was a verified 'original' (there are quite a few clones out there apparently) I will say it was good when it was working, lots of functionality, and cheap as chips - but one day I got so fed up with messing with it, I just chucked it in the bin .. of course, might just be I got a bad one, or perhaps its was built badly (though i looked at the circuit, and seemed well built, no obvious issues) , but it put me off them, anyway, I went on the look for something else, and as i was getting into DIY, I bought an Analog Discovery 2 which is not only a oscilloscope, but also signal generator, and power supply. I solder a quick set of leads to a 3.5mm jack to allow quick plugin to eurorack, or you can use the pins directly to AEM. the software is very good, allowing you not only to capture waveforms but also measure things... see my bela thread for how i used it to debug a noise issue! its not cheap though, so Im sure there are lots of alternatives to this (and honestly, my eyes glaze over when tech specs of scopes are discussed, i guess because for audio the sample rates it not that important) its great for debugging things, but of course its not as handy as having something in the rack though... So, I wonder what would be a good options for an audio waveform scope in a rack... these small oled, that seem to be in many eurorack modules, are really cheap - esp. for monochrome, then just need something to drive it, I guess some micro-controller with an audio rate ADC? hmm, I have an small oled, and an arduino nano and teensy 3.2 sitting around in my spares box, i think the nano cannot do the SR required, but the teensy 3.2 can. so perhaps if i can dig up the oled library and add for the teensy this might be quite a simple project. thoughts? (it is about time I started using the nano and teensy for something, had them for a while - but just not got around to that initial step of determine software setup required, and working out the ide etc.. a small thing, but its usually the tedious bit of developing on a new platform )
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gaeel
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Post by gaeel on Sept 19, 2018 12:06:22 GMT
I absolutely think a dedicated AEM mountable option would be good, the Teensy and the Nano are both around 1U wide, if there are small screens about that size, I'm sure a neat little module could be made
I have a few Nanos and a Teensy here, and I can probably order a few small screens, so I can try to help with my relatively limited electronics skills
Edit: Do you remember what issues you had with the DSO138? Given the cost and the fast that it has to be put together, often by amateurs, I'm sure that sometimes they have problems, would be nice to know what to look out for
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Post by robertlanger on Sept 19, 2018 12:36:15 GMT
I thought already a lot about a scope module for AE; especially for beginners I find it quite useful to get the relation between waveform and sound. My thoughts go towards a module with one of these OLED displays, with the following functions: - scope - spectrum analyzer - frequency meter/ tuner - ...anything else? Great to see I'm not alone with this idea ;-)
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Post by NightMachines on Sept 19, 2018 12:47:29 GMT
I always like two inputs on my scopes, for making XY art, visualizing chaos patterns and simply for comparing two signals (eg wet and dry).
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Post by thetechnobear on Sept 19, 2018 15:19:14 GMT
Edit: Do you remember what issues you had with the DSO138? Given the cost and the fast that it has to be put together, often by amateurs, I'm sure that sometimes they have problems, would be nice to know what to look out for I cant remember exactly it was a while ago... but the basics were sometimes the signal would not show, sometimes it would... ( I think sometimes it was also attenuated) i think id do hard resets, and then occasionally it would start working. I checked the connections on the board for the probes, and they seemed fine - I tried reseating the top/bottom part - all would seem to fix it for that session, then the next time it'd not work, and Id have to mess about with it for 10 minutes to get it working again. I just got frustrated that every time i went to use it, id spend a while having to fiddle with it, each time thinking, this time its going to final stop working entirely. likely a bad build as you say, and I did read others having similar issues ... but some are totally happy with theirs. but given it wasn't too expensive, I didnt really care that much, and I also then knew more what i was looking for in a scope - so considered it an education process! - spectrum analyzer - frequency meter/ tuner scopes are pretty , and these 2 would be really useful additions 2 channel would be cool, either as Felix says for x/y or for comparing waveforms (so same time axis)
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Post by admin on Sept 19, 2018 22:54:13 GMT
The DSO138 was my second ever soldering project. I bought it completely in parts and had to do my first SMD soldering. I was really positively surprised that it just worked when I first switched it on!
It may not be the most precise instrument, but it's a great way to get into DIY and it's really fun to "see" the sound of your synth.
I always scoffed at the idea of having a scope in my Eurorack, because real-estate in a Eurorack case is precious and expensive! But for AE Modular where the case is 30 bucks this is a no-brainer! VCVRack (the software modular) has plenty of different scopes to choose from and I would always have one or two in my patches to debug what's going on.
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Post by mobius on Sept 20, 2018 1:24:00 GMT
I picked up and put together a DSO 15001K just last weekend. The kit ran me about 40 USD on Amazon, but I think I saw other options where the kit was fully assembled for a little more, as well as some assembled versions of the DSO 138. Just watch out for the fake/fraudulent copies being sold by other sellers...
I went with the 15001K because it seemed a little more durable with the full case and seemed to have a little better reviews re: the function of the circuit. Fun little soldering project - the kit I bought had the SMD parts already soldered in, and the rest wasn't anything too terribly difficult. I haven't done a whole lot with it yet (still waiting on my AE System to arrive), but it was fun to hook up to the Korg SQ-1Pitch out and watch the CV steps form and change as you mess about with it. Definitely looking forward to hooking up some signals from AE system!
Unfortunately it only runs on 9V, so powering off the AE rails doesn't seem likely. Also not sure about the height of the board... But if that were to fit, I imagine one could solder in battery connector and change up some of the connection points... might work? I'll revisit once I get my system and if I get adventurous I will certainly report back.
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Post by knockman on Sept 21, 2018 21:48:36 GMT
I've found the DSO138 to be highly useful. Very handy for fiddling around inside equipment when trying to determine patch points, clock signals and trigger pulses, etc., since it's so small. With that in mind, if something like this were to be incorporated into an AE module, making it detachable from the rack in some way might be a useful feature so that you could use it at a workbench for example. Although, I guess most DIYers would already have some option for this anyway. Regarding the 9v powering, I think that could easily be worked around with a DC-DC booster converter. I can also recommend the Function Generator kit not only for experiments and testing but also as a sound source.
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Post by NightMachines on Sept 22, 2018 9:29:53 GMT
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RaBe
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Aspiring AEModularist
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Post by RaBe on Apr 4, 2019 12:53:38 GMT
...I always scoffed at the idea of having a scope in my Eurorack, because real-estate in a Eurorack case is precious and expensive! ... Same here ;-) But a scope really does help to understand one's modules and make better use of them. - Still there are times when I do not need a scope. Swapping it out for sth else temporarily seems like a nuisance though. What I could use instead is a 2 ch counter that counts two streams of clock ticks/gates that can be reset by a trigger/gate. That would give me a better idea of the structural relations in my improvised patches.
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Post by rodney on Jul 27, 2019 21:08:40 GMT
I thought already a lot about a scope module for AE; especially for beginners I find it quite useful to get the relation between waveform and sound. My thoughts go towards a module with one of these OLED displays, with the following functions: - scope - spectrum analyzer - frequency meter/ tuner - ...anything else? Great to see I'm not alone with this idea ;-) I was thinking that I'd like some tools for microtuning, so frequency is a must. However, sometimes it's the frequency ratio between two signals (or a signal and an internal reference oscillator) that might matter more. I am not sure if this would be a good addition or not but I'll try to make something to test soon. I was thinking a teensy and the sparkfun OLED shield for my first try but I like some of the suggestions here on the forum. That said, I will probably try for a dedicated microtuning module with quantizer and scale re-mapper etc. The Teensy's DAC might be enough on its own. Anyway, I'll try to expand on this idea and start up a microtuning discussion because, "If there's one, there's probably another" - Rod.
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Post by rodney on Jul 27, 2019 23:31:50 GMT
If you have a friend with a 3D printer, there are a few nice cases for the DSO138 on thingiverse.
I printed up this one:
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Post by rodney on Jul 28, 2019 0:29:56 GMT
When my AE modular arrives, i’ll definitely make a DSO module. I’ll try to make a stretched version of the plastic case to fit in the AErack.
It would take up 5 units (125mm) so a slim little Teensy-based one would still be great for realestate reasons.
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Post by rodney on Jul 30, 2019 9:17:26 GMT
I've been trying to teach myself to use Onshape, a browser-based CAD program.
here's my first try at a plastic DSO138 module faceplate for AE Modular.
It eats up 5 units of space but would be fun. I'm still figuring a few things out but will probably add a jack socket and an RCA socket near the top so I can still plug other stuff in from elsewhere.
My 3D printer is a bit dodgy but we'll see how it goes. I have some measurements wrong still but it's getting there.
I'll upload the source files once I get it right(ish).
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Post by rodney on Jul 30, 2019 9:19:54 GMT
I may try to get the whole unit more flush with the panel as I'm worried that some of my custom stuff won't fold down nicely with two cases and a hinge. However, I think it will be largely unavoidable in the case of DIY breadboard modules and the ones I intend to make for LittleBits.
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Post by rodney on Sept 12, 2019 23:36:18 GMT
I've been trying to teach myself to use Onshape, a browser-based CAD program.
here's my first try at a plastic DSO138 module faceplate for AE Modular.
It eats up 5 units of space but would be fun. I'm still figuring a few things out but will probably add a jack socket and an RCA socket near the top so I can still plug other stuff in from elsewhere.
My 3D printer is a bit dodgy but we'll see how it goes. I have some measurements wrong still but it's getting there.
I'll upload the source files once I get it right(ish).
oops! I got the DSO138 and the DSO138 Mini mixed up in my head. Now I have a half-finished AE module that needs 8-12v, not 5v! grrrr... robertlanger , would bad things happen if I run a pair of wires parallel to the 9v power connector on the Master Module to power my 9v scope module? It draws about 120mA.
Otherwise, back to the drawing board.
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Post by rodney on Oct 25, 2019 4:24:57 GMT
another approach to a very little DSO...
This one is PIC32MZ-based. Certainly gets the footprint down. robertlanger I guess that is maybe 4mm too wide? Actually, the display is a whisker less than 25mm wide (24.9x22.95x1.65mm) so it will maybe fit with a bit of PCB-shaving.
That would leave space for the spectrum and the tuner!
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Post by NightMachines on Nov 22, 2019 12:52:25 GMT
I just received a tiny DSO212 which I bought for less than 120€ online. It has two input channels, a signal generator, onboard storage for screenshots, a built in battery which is charged via USB ... it’s quite amazing for the price, at least to visualize and compare waveforms from your synth easily. http://instagram.com/p/B5KxFmGoSCL
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Post by NightMachines on Nov 23, 2019 11:00:39 GMT
I also ordered two adapter cables which make it easier to use the DS212 with the AE Modular. They’re MCX to BNC cables as I already had BNC to RCA adapters at home. There are MCX to RCA cables too though. Using a stereo RCA to 3.5mm TRS cable then, you can plug the scope into one stereo port on the 4I/O module, which also takes care of grounding. EDIT: just found this hack a day article about it: hackaday.com/2017/11/18/ds212-oscilloscope-review-open-source-and-great-for-hacking/The software of the scope is open source!
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Post by slowscape on Nov 23, 2019 15:56:01 GMT
The software of the scope is open source! This may have answered my question.
I just came here to ask if anyone knew of a small oscilloscope like this that was capable of sending data to another destination, like a computer.
open to other suggestions if you know of one!
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Post by rodney on Apr 9, 2020 2:16:12 GMT
The DSO138 can send info to a PC via the USB port.
The other relevant thing I just noticed is that the original DSO138 needs about 9v or more to run so it can't pick up power from the AE bus. However, the AE Master module actually has a Eurorack bus and I have used this to power another module that can't manage to run on 5v. I just ran a wire from the +12 pin. I also ran one from the Gnd pin to avoid also using the AE bus connector.
I have a .STL file for a 3D printed case for the original DSO138 if anyone wants to try it.
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Post by tendigits on Sept 9, 2020 13:10:48 GMT
I also ordered two adapter cables which make it easier to use the DS212 with the AE Modular. They’re MCX to BNC cables as I already had BNC to RCA adapters at home. There are MCX to RCA cables too though. Using a stereo RCA to 3.5mm TRS cable then, you can plug the scope into one stereo port on the 4I/O module, which also takes care of grounding. EDIT: just found this hack a day article about it: hackaday.com/2017/11/18/ds212-oscilloscope-review-open-source-and-great-for-hacking/The software of the scope is open source!
I just wanted to say thanks for this guidance. I'm new to synth, and I think the visuals will help. This DSO solution worked straight away.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CE6rgaID4js
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