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Post by hide on Dec 8, 2019 5:08:27 GMT
Hello,
I'm currently interested in making a modular setup and no doubt the price is a major concern concerning eurorack and while doing research i stumbled again on these cheap (but seemingly powerful) modular.
i had envisioned some kind of setup that would be half computer half modular with a DC coupled interface that would have permit to make modulation or send audio or CV to/from the eurorack and back to the computer (with Bitwig or VCV).
1 : So i'm not sure what do i need to make this happen or if it's even possible, do i still need an ultra-expensive DC interface ? Or can I send an LFO from my computer with a cheap interface through 4I/O ?
If a DC interface is needed, do you know cheap ones ?
EDIT : 2 : On the opposite, can i connect my behringer neutron to tangible waves with 4I/O ? What will happen to the current i read that it was +/-12V but Tangible only 0/+5V ?
Actually I don't get it, what's the difference beween audio and DC, isn't audio only a variable current ? So what are the switch for ?
3 : Another question because i love the oldschool sound of spring reverb, does the spring from the reverb module fit inside the case or do i need to put it beside ? I guess it doesn't go inside but just making sure.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2019 21:18:45 GMT
I'm not sure what to suggest regarding the PC/modular setup. It all depends on what software you decide to use, but I'm curious as to how you would record it. As far as I know VCV rack no longer has a bridge for recording into a DAW. You could use a regular audio interface, but if you go from the output into the modular and then back into the out again, there might be a feedback issue.
You can plug the Behringer Neutron into one of the jack inputs on the Master I/O module. You can them patch the signal from the Audio I/0 to anywhere you like. As long as you keep the line output level low at the source I wouldn't worry about overloading the Master I/O. I've only ever used the 4 I/O as and output but I imagine it would work the same way.
I don't have the spring reverb module but it looks to me that the module itself will fit inside the case. The spring itself comes as a seperate unit and plugs into the module via a jack cable.
Hope this has been of some help as least!
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Post by hide on Dec 8, 2019 22:24:07 GMT
Thanks at least this make me realize i not sure about what i want.
I'm confused about the eurorack(and neutron) compatibility, on the wiki it says to be really careful to not overload with more than 5V, i also read on this forum that it's possible with the NS1 Nanobridge that will act as a shield.
And on the other side i've seen a youtube video with a keystep used bare with pitch and gate 3,5mm cables, and you also say that it's ok.
I think i'm not even sure anymore what I wanted in the first place.
I'll try to think it loud.
For exemple, what are the options for using the envelope from an eurorack (the neutron for exemple) is it ok if i send a gate signal from the 4I/O pin=>3,5mm=>eurorack envelope and then back to 4I/O 3,5mm=>pin=>2VCA.
In this case I would end with a ADSR envelope like that.
And same : can I process audio from the oscillator of the neutron by going through 4I/O and then whatever i want ? Or the reverse audio from AE to Eurorack ?
Actually I think what i want to know is what happen to the signal with 4I/O or the Master Audio I/O and Ctrl I/O ?
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Post by hide on Dec 8, 2019 23:17:57 GMT
Anyway, i'm THAT close to going for this :  (plus an additionnal wasp filter, in case of need of ac1d) Just constraining myself for some additionnal research and it's weird to think i'll receive it only in february or march, but i'm like a child in front of this :  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2019 0:46:00 GMT
So what you'd want is to control the AE modular vca from the eurorack envelope, is this right? In which case I'd say it's entirely possible, it's all modular after all. As far as I'm aware Robert designed the AE modules to be fairly tolerant of overloading. That said it'd be wise to keep signals below 5V, incoming or outgoing. I'm hoping to get a Behringer Neutron myself, seems like a very capable little synth.
To answer your question earlier about the audio/DC switch, I'm not entirely sure but I'd hazard a guess that the DC setting is better suited for gate/trigger pulses. Also if you were to take the output of the neutron and plug into the master I/O or 4 I/O, id suggest using a smooth waveshape i.e triangle. That way you know if there's a risk of overloading the input because you will hear more of a square wave which results from the waveform being clipped, and you can lower the input if necessary.
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Post by hide on Dec 9, 2019 1:52:49 GMT
All right, so I just try to keep the level in control. Easier said than done  when i know buzzier sounds are just a knob ahead. It scares me a little but i'm not there before some time anyway. And i'm calling my rack done (after a few more modification) until my bank finally greenlight because apparently they are not ok with it currently. Because i'm tired, it's been around a week of research and i have to make a decision and this feel like the best option at my current knowledge. Removed Delay, Topograf and Divider and added MMDiver, VCO, 4ATTMIX and Wasp  There are module i'm not yet sure how to really use the logic and the slew/edge (except if it's like Make Noise Maths), but i'm up for surprises x). And in any case there's no way to know for sure all the uses for a modular. But I guess that will make a fairly competent modular for a big start. And half the price of what i had decided on with a way more specialised eurorack (but still i miss those Make Noise modules like QPAS, that's why i have 2 SVF with AE  ) EDIT : Allright, i couldn't wait and went to Juno uk to get a starter rack 2 in b-stock (crossing fingers), multifx, wavefolder and usb power. That'll do for now and like that i'll be able to toy a little for christmas \o/ |
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Post by admin on Dec 9, 2019 6:35:06 GMT
Hello hide, I think you won't regret getting the starter 2 system. It's a good selection of modules and allows for some expansion later on. The Multi-FX is definitely a must-have module ... even though I have other effects pedals, etc. I still use this as the main effect to beef up the AE sound. Please keep asking questions, it's just that with people being in different time zones etc. you might not get an answer immediately. Welcome to the AE community! |
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Post by hide on Dec 9, 2019 9:21:35 GMT
Hi careck, I know for sure that I won't regret it as much as if i went eurorack I also have a good reverb/delay pedal but getting the multifx make things way easier (especially since juno uk miss the 4I/O and many other modules). Thanks for having me  Now i'll listen to the Aether Waves album until i receive the rack ! |
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Lugia
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Post by Lugia on Dec 10, 2019 2:38:12 GMT
Getting back to the initial post...
1) It doesn't take an expensive interface to do CV conversion, just one that's _definitely_ DC-coupled. This page at Expert Sleepers' website ( www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/siwacompatibility.html ) is their list of compatible interfaces, many of which can be had for cheap on the used market since they're "obsolete" as audio interfaces these days. I myself use a MOTU 828 mkIII that I got for about $120 on Reverb. And while that list is specific to their site, it also shows what's compatible with, say, Volta (MOTU, Mac only) or CV Tools (Ableton). BUT...
2) You can connect the Neutron's AUDIO via the 4I/O just fine. But the CV values that it outputs might be over the line for the AE architecture. My plan here is to use a Soundmachines Nanobridge, which is capable of limiting voltage values to a range of 0-5v provided the Nanobridge is given a reference for the ground and 5v. The clock pulses, though, should be fine as B. uses the typical +5v sync as does AE. As for the latter question here....first of all, you've got "voltage" and "current" confused. Voltage refers to a specific level referenced to 0v, while current refers to the amount of available power and/or power drawn by a device. Basically, amplitude and flow/flow capacity. The DC coupling switches exist because, in some cases, you _do not_ want to pass DC...especially in an audio path. DC, when fed to an amplifier and then speakers = wrecked amplifier and/or speakers, potentially. At the very least, DC in an audio path leads to false level readings, screwy stereo imaging, and the like. It's a big no-no.
So that brings up another point: when setting up whatever software conversion environment you're planning to use, make sure beforehand to instruct that software to not exceed the 0 - 5v range, and to add offset voltages when necessary (such as with an LFO) with the understanding that the offset + signal still must not exceed that range. Should be simple enough. This practice also frees up Nanobridge channels should you decide to add one of those as well.
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pol
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Post by pol on Dec 10, 2019 22:01:55 GMT
I feel you were really sensible going for the Starter system, it saves a little money and you will find out what you really want before expanding the system, and spread your budget a bit (I use the 4 month interest free facility on Paypal for that as well). I can vouch for the Neutron working with the AE Modular, but the synth I like best with mine is the Minibrute 2, I bought a Keystep to use with the AE, but the Minibrute has replaced it as gives me almost the same functionality, a patchbay and another noise source.
The thing about watching over 5 volts going into the AE (and negative voltage) is to minimise the risk of damage, and is prevented with the use of the 4 I/O module which, as discussed earlier in the thread, can be set for audio or CV optimisation (per I/O). I have 2 I/Os permanently patched to my Minibrute, the other 2 I use for audio out when I do stereo via the Multi-FX module. The Master module you could use one of the I/Os in the same way (you need the other for the audio out). Any decent equipment should tell you their output range, and you could always buy a volt/multi meter if you wanted to be sure.
When you do your first order with Tangible Waves, recommend getting more patch cables - I've bought some every order and still want more!
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pol
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Post by pol on Dec 10, 2019 22:06:40 GMT
For exemple, what are the options for using the envelope from an eurorack (the neutron for exemple) is it ok if i send a gate signal from the 4I/O pin=>3,5mm=>eurorack envelope and then back to 4I/O 3,5mm=>pin=>2VCA. In this case I would end with a ADSR envelope like that. And same : can I process audio from the oscillator of the neutron by going through 4I/O and then whatever i want ? Or the reverse audio from AE to Eurorack ? Audio from one machine to the other is no problem, just watch levels for distortion - I haven't had it happen much but it does. The patch you suggest I have done with my Neutron & Minbrute and it works fine, but what I usually end up doing is sending triggers from the external machine to the AE as I'm using the sequencer on the Minibrute, or playing the Neutron via midi, just find it easier to keep track of the patch. |
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Post by rodney on Dec 10, 2019 22:51:46 GMT
When you do your first order with Tangible Waves, recommend getting more patch cables - I've bought some every order and still want more! +1 re: patch cables. They look like standard electronics hobbyist jumper leads but the pins are slightly fatter so they stay in more firmly. They also have a silicon rubber sheathing so they feel slightly nicer and are less likely to tangle. the tactile feel is very important to just enjoying the instrument, since they are small and fiddly compared to the satisfying click of expensive phono jack connections.
The starter rack width is a good match for inexpensive cases on the market (and, often on the side of the street) and easy to take as carry-on luggage.
Because our mental model of a modular synth comes from vintage and eurorack systems, it will be a big surprise, just how tiny these systems are when you meet one in person! |
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Post by hide on Dec 11, 2019 0:30:10 GMT
(Wow 3 posts since i started writing this => i'm answering to Lugia)
Thanks, lots of alien concept for me, i must have read your dense post something like 20 times over the course of the day XD but i think (i hope) i got it. So please tell me if i got those right.
- Yes i don't make the difference between voltage and current but i think i get that i'm mostly speaking about voltage range provided by the modules. Modules all have a current of 5v, right ? so current shouldn't be a concern from a user perspective.
- Whatever would receive my AE modular from a eurorack to 4I/O should be ok-ish but mangled.
- I heard that most interface and amp filter DC or any voltage that's under 20hz (like mine) so most people should be covered. It's with a DC-coupled interface that problems starts ?
- So i'm not sure i get the dc-switch, is it an extra-extra-security (for a non dc-coupled interface) when sending from AE or a line-level switch called audio ? And when receiving it's not used because anyway AE it's also mostly protected for too high/low voltages ?
Anyway i'm a noob in electricity and speaking about it in english is not helping, it's becoming tiring and a bit non-sensical to try to make sense of everything right now. So don't bother making a big explanation, i'm ok with "you have a lot to learn little padawan" ;D.
I receive my system thursday and will see what about it more in detail that day. Actually trying basic normal stuff for a start will help.
Just ONE last semi-related important question : Will i kill my headphones if i connect a +5v (or a really slow lfo) to the Master AudioOut pin with the headphone on the AudioOut jack ? (Let's say these headphone have gain control, but i've set it at max)
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Post by hide on Dec 11, 2019 0:40:01 GMT
Yes patch cables... I knew more than a "bunch" wouldn't hurt but juno uk don't have them. So ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I have a few of short ones (11cm) i got for arduino stuff but they really are short. Thanks for reminding it though as I have to bring them to my parent's house in case the system is THAT small |
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Post by admin on Dec 11, 2019 3:54:23 GMT
Just ONE last semi-related important question : Will i kill my headphones if i connect a +5v (or a really slow lfo) to the Master AudioOut pin with the headphone on the AudioOut jack ? (Let's say these headphone have gain control, but i've set it at max) Please don't ever connect headphones directly to the Audio output of the Master or 4I/O module. This could damage the module or your headphones! You should connect the audio outputs to a mixer our recorder which accepts line level input and then connect your headphones to that. You can also buy the HPAMP Headphone Amplifier module for the AE and then you can connect headphones directly to that. wiki.aemodular.com/pmwiki.php/AeManual/HPAMP |
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Post by feijai on Sept 22, 2023 11:30:28 GMT
Please don't ever connect headphones directly to the Audio output of the Master or 4I/O module. This could damage the module or your headphones! I am trying to understand the reason here. Is this because headphones generally have a low input impedance? What if I connect a battery-powered portable speaker, such as a Oontz Angle 3. This device has an input jack designed to be plugged into the headphone jack of phones, laptops, etc., though I've found it generally works okay in line input. I presume a device like this doesn't have the ultra low impedance you'd expect from headphones? Just trying to avoid destroying my MASTER module.
EDIT: I have been using the Oontz for a few weeks now: seems to be fine.
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Post by keurslagerkurt on Oct 12, 2023 21:01:44 GMT
Tbh there is not a very big risk associated with plugging in headphones AFAIK. I've done it quite a lot with my relatively low impedance (32 ohm) Beyerdynamics to quickly check if sound works. Just a crappy way to use a headphone cause it's only in one ear.
I can imagine some ultra-low impedance generating a larger current, but with only 5 volts PEAK, it seems close to impossible to break anything to me.
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when i know buzzier sounds are just a knob ahead. It scares me a little but i'm not there before some time anyway.
)
