|
|
Post by cadenza on Sept 25, 2019 14:46:54 GMT
Hello everyone, just wanted to make a post to introduce myself to the forum as this seems like a really neat little community that I can see really growing in the future. I recently got bitten by the synth bug, maybe a year or two ago. I'd played around with VST synths and such in the past but I always reached for presets and never really thought much of the process of making a patch or sculpting a sound, until I played around with Native Instrument's version of the mini-moog, Monark. It's simple interface and limited number of controls really drew me in, looking like the easiest place to start to learn what synthesis was all about. After that first little taste of wiggling a (virtual) filter knob and listening to it respond, I was in. So I'm a few volcas deep now and I've been hungry for more, an environment for making electronic music outside of the PC. While the volcas are fun, they kind of direct you in a certain way with each individual flavour, so I've wanted something that I have much more control over and I can take in any musical direction I want. This is where the desire for modular came in. I've been saving money for a eurorack system and been in the process of planning what I wanted to get sometime next year. While asking for advice in a facebook group somebody suggested AE Modular to me, I'd never heard of it before and was really pleasantly surprised when I saw and heard it. Also, the fact the platform is so young is really exciting to me. So this goes either one of two ways. 1. I plan and purchase my AE Modular, am super satisfied with it, grow my system and continue to make music within the AE Modular ecosystem. 2. I plan and purchase my AE Modular, am super satisfied with it..."need more"..."must have more".....spend thousands of £ on eurorack anyway. Eitherway, I've changed my mind on going eurorack for now and plan to start building the AE Modular system that is right for me in the next month or so. Really looking forward to taking part in the patch challenges you've got here and maybe contributing music if you folks ever put together another AEther Waves album which I've been enjoying. Also, I'm Sean and I'm from Scotland  |
|
pol
Wiki Editors
Posts: 1,349
|
Post by pol on Sept 28, 2019 18:51:05 GMT
I was considering Eurorack when I came across the AE Modular, which took away all my concerns about cost etc. I'm now well into filling my 3rd row of AE Modules and don't regret a thing - been brilliant. There are obviously some modules you can't have (yet) in AE compared to Eurorack, but there's plenty to play with for now!
|
|
Lugia
Wiki Editors
Ridiculously busy...ish.
Posts: 556 
|
Post by Lugia on Sept 28, 2019 22:15:36 GMT
It's funny and annoying at the same time, but Eurorack has turned into something of an expensive pursuit. When Dieter Doepfer conceived of this format, it was the mid-1990s or thereabouts, and the existing modular hardware was all older stuff and was becoming prohibitively expensive due to the collectors' market. So he wanted to produce analog modules that would be affordable...and succeeded, pretty much. But as Eurorack grew, this "price creep" started, and now modules that cost the same (or worse!) than some Buchla modules or even certain Serge _panels_ aren't uncommon.
OTOH, my "Gargantua" system (Robert's still assembling this monster) has a repeating pattern of modules in it that are designed on the basics of the Buchla 258, albeit doubled. A clone 258 (Buchla no longer makes it) will run you $800. But the "primitives" for this assemblage in the AE format ring up at EUR 172.00. So...EUR 1032.00 for six of these module sets, as compared to $9600 to try the same idea with "the genuine article". But even if I specced the cheapest Eurorack "258-ish" (VOID's Gravitational Waves, $250 street) at the same level of implementation, the AE version just barely edges over 1/3rd of that for the same spec.
So, here's the thing...even if Robert never makes super-elaborate modules (which, fact is, he certainly will, alongside the simpler ones), you can still build up subsets of these simpler modules as "primitives" and then patch them into the more expensive configurations, and _still_ save money. Sure, this makes your synth larger, but 1) it'll likely be simpler to program due to the lack of abtuse module functions and more sensible compartmentalization and 2) _it's still cheaper!_ And Robert's still plugging away at new designs, so this isn't a "finished map" by any stretch of the imagination. So, my bet is that "option #1" is what you're going to be looking at as you get used to the AE environment.
And yes...I could just as easily (but not economically) have a Eurorack system. I know Eurorack like the back of my hand these days. But I chose this instead because, in the long run, it just makes more practical sense. True, it's not as snazzy looking...but there's some very real sonic horsepower hiding behind those basic-looking panels. AE ain't no joke.
|
|
|
|
Post by cadenza on Sept 28, 2019 22:31:29 GMT
It's funny and annoying at the same time, but Eurorack has turned into something of an expensive pursuit. When Dieter Doepfer conceived of this format, it was the mid-1990s or thereabouts, and the existing modular hardware was all older stuff and was becoming prohibitively expensive due to the collectors' market. So he wanted to produce analog modules that would be affordable...and succeeded, pretty much. But as Eurorack grew, this "price creep" started, and now modules that cost the same (or worse!) than some Buchla modules or even certain Serge _panels_ aren't uncommon.
OTOH, my "Gargantua" system (Robert's still assembling this monster) has a repeating pattern of modules in it that are designed on the basics of the Buchla 258, albeit doubled. A clone 258 (Buchla no longer makes it) will run you $800. But the "primitives" for this assemblage in the AE format ring up at EUR 172.00. So...EUR 1032.00 for six of these module sets, as compared to $9600 to try the same idea with "the genuine article". But even if I specced the cheapest Eurorack "258-ish" (VOID's Gravitational Waves, $250 street) at the same level of implementation, the AE version just barely edges over 1/3rd of that for the same spec.
So, here's the thing...even if Robert never makes super-elaborate modules (which, fact is, he certainly will, alongside the simpler ones), you can still build up subsets of these simpler modules as "primitives" and then patch them into the more expensive configurations, and _still_ save money. Sure, this makes your synth larger, but 1) it'll likely be simpler to program due to the lack of abtuse module functions and more sensible compartmentalization and 2) _it's still cheaper!_ And Robert's still plugging away at new designs, so this isn't a "finished map" by any stretch of the imagination. So, my bet is that "option #1" is what you're going to be looking at as you get used to the AE environment.
And yes...I could just as easily (but not economically) have a Eurorack system. I know Eurorack like the back of my hand these days. But I chose this instead because, in the long run, it just makes more practical sense. True, it's not as snazzy looking...but there's some very real sonic horsepower hiding behind those basic-looking panels. AE ain't no joke.
I'm looking forward to hearing and seeing your gargantuan build! Honestly I've been thinking the same thing. Now that I know the cost isn't prohibitive, I could quite easily afford to build a very large AE synth of my own over the next year or so. I've been sketching out ideas for large systems and it'd be similar in a sense to you where you have repeated blocks of modules, I think I'd go more in the direction of the moog modular kind of configuration but adapted to my own needs. The aesthetic of AE absolutely isn't a turn off for me either. The look of it is really cool to me, it's got punk vibes. |
|
|
|
Post by loopier on Sept 29, 2019 5:40:11 GMT
you can still build up subsets of these simpler modules as "primitives" and then patch them into the more expensive configurations, and _still_ save money. Sure, this makes your synth larger, but 1) it'll likely be simpler to program due to the lack of abtuse module functions and more sensible compartmentalization and 2) _it's still cheaper!_ And Robert's still plugging away at new designs, so this isn't a "finished map" by any stretch of the imagination. It makes the synth larger but ain't that beautiful?
On top of that, this great format is absolutely DIY-friendly, so you can build away insanely complex systems _even cheaper_!
|
|
|
|
Post by rockysmalls on Sept 29, 2019 10:32:20 GMT
It's funny and annoying at the same time, but Eurorack has turned into something of an expensive pursuit. When Dieter Doepfer conceived of this format, it was the mid-1990s or thereabouts, and the existing modular hardware was all older stuff and was becoming prohibitively expensive due to the collectors' market. So he wanted to produce analog modules that would be affordable...and succeeded, pretty much. But as Eurorack grew, this "price creep" started, and now modules that cost the same (or worse!) than some Buchla modules or even certain Serge _panels_ aren't uncommon.
OTOH, my "Gargantua" system (Robert's still assembling this monster) has a repeating pattern of modules in it that are designed on the basics of the Buchla 258, albeit doubled. A clone 258 (Buchla no longer makes it) will run you $800. But the "primitives" for this assemblage in the AE format ring up at EUR 172.00. So...EUR 1032.00 for six of these module sets, as compared to $9600 to try the same idea with "the genuine article". But even if I specced the cheapest Eurorack "258-ish" (VOID's Gravitational Waves, $250 street) at the same level of implementation, the AE version just barely edges over 1/3rd of that for the same spec.
So, here's the thing...even if Robert never makes super-elaborate modules (which, fact is, he certainly will, alongside the simpler ones), you can still build up subsets of these simpler modules as "primitives" and then patch them into the more expensive configurations, and _still_ save money. Sure, this makes your synth larger, but 1) it'll likely be simpler to program due to the lack of abtuse module functions and more sensible compartmentalization and 2) _it's still cheaper!_ And Robert's still plugging away at new designs, so this isn't a "finished map" by any stretch of the imagination. So, my bet is that "option #1" is what you're going to be looking at as you get used to the AE environment.
And yes...I could just as easily (but not economically) have a Eurorack system. I know Eurorack like the back of my hand these days. But I chose this instead because, in the long run, it just makes more practical sense. True, it's not as snazzy looking...but there's some very real sonic horsepower hiding behind those basic-looking panels. AE ain't no joke.
personally.. I think it is very ‘snazzy’ looking.. it appeals to every Walter Gropius functional/industrial design instinct... I doubt even the Swedes could do better ;-) |
|
Lugia
Wiki Editors
Ridiculously busy...ish.
Posts: 556
|
Post by Lugia on Sept 30, 2019 0:51:27 GMT
And yes...I could just as easily (but not economically) have a Eurorack system. I know Eurorack like the back of my hand these days. But I chose this instead because, in the long run, it just makes more practical sense. True, it's not as snazzy looking...but there's some very real sonic horsepower hiding behind those basic-looking panels. AE ain't no joke. personally.. I think it is very ‘snazzy’ looking.. it appeals to every Walter Gropius functional/industrial design instinct... I doubt even the Swedes could do better ;-) See, I like that about it as well. One of my biggest peeves in Eurorack is this trend of "let's make the panel as obtuse and confusing as possible, because...ART". For example, I think Noise Engineering is doing some interesting things...BEHIND the panel. But in front? Oh, jeez...I've seen less-confusing Rohrschach blots, tbh. With AE, the design is simple, clean, very basic...not unlike Bob's modular panels, where you have basic and clear lettering on black panels, everything laid out very simplistically.
There's a number of synth manufacturers who do this "confuz-o-panel" nonsense. To me, it's the equivalent of relabeling organ stops things like "Fweech" and "Plorgsnab". I'd like to know what the damn controls DO, frankly. Knowing what the controls do is, after all, a big part of being able to play these instruments. This is also what's kept me away from the Ciat-Lonbarde stuff; I LOVE what Peter Blaser's doing with his sound concepts, and if I could ever figure out what all of the various hieroglyphs and unlabelled bits do, maybe I'll try one of his instruments someday. But I'm of the mindset (probably a Nashville thing, but still practical) that when I sit down at an instrument, I need to know what that thing can do, and how I can make it do it...minus a bunch of futzing around. Robert's super-simplistic design sensibilities here NAIL that criteria!
|
|
|
|
Post by d00gan on Sept 30, 2019 2:07:14 GMT
Lugia, do you have a breakdown of your gargantua system?
|
|
|
|
Post by cadenza on Sept 30, 2019 9:24:15 GMT
personally.. I think it is very ‘snazzy’ looking.. it appeals to every Walter Gropius functional/industrial design instinct... I doubt even the Swedes could do better ;-) See, I like that about it as well. One of my biggest peeves in Eurorack is this trend of "let's make the panel as obtuse and confusing as possible, because...ART". For example, I think Noise Engineering is doing some interesting things...BEHIND the panel. But in front? Oh, jeez...I've seen less-confusing Rohrschach blots, tbh. With AE, the design is simple, clean, very basic...not unlike Bob's modular panels, where you have basic and clear lettering on black panels, everything laid out very simplistically.
There's a number of synth manufacturers who do this "confuz-o-panel" nonsense. To me, it's the equivalent of relabeling organ stops things like "Fweech" and "Plorgsnab". I'd like to know what the damn controls DO, frankly. Knowing what the controls do is, after all, a big part of being able to play these instruments. This is also what's kept me away from the Ciat-Lonbarde stuff; I LOVE what Peter Blaser's doing with his sound concepts, and if I could ever figure out what all of the various hieroglyphs and unlabelled bits do, maybe I'll try one of his instruments someday. But I'm of the mindset (probably a Nashville thing, but still practical) that when I sit down at an instrument, I need to know what that thing can do, and how I can make it do it...minus a bunch of futzing around. Robert's super-simplistic design sensibilities here NAIL that criteria!
I agree with you. I suppose the idea is to encourage experimentation, and maybe when inputs or outputs are a bit more complex and multifunctional using the technical terms would actually come across as equally obtuse. But overall I much prefer a visually clean and readable panel. I like the variety of module designs too, but it also means a eurorack case can become an awful collage of mismatched designs unless you stick to one or two brands. I think Instruo have hit the mark with really beautifully designed panels that are clearly labelled with knob per function.  |
|
Lugia
Wiki Editors
Ridiculously busy...ish.
Posts: 556
|
Post by Lugia on Oct 1, 2019 2:09:35 GMT
Lugia, do you have a breakdown of your gargantua system? This is the module rundown for it, as sent to Robert back in July (right around the time his pain issues flared up, unfortunately). Minus the acccessories, in four 20 x 2 cabs: SEQ16 = 3 3VCSWITCH = 4 LFO = 8 2ATT/CV = 3 STEP10 = 1 (if possible) BEAT DIVIDER = 2 TRIQ164 = 1 MM-DIV = 1 DIVIDER = 1 LOGIC = 2 OR2x4 = 2 QUANTIZER = 2 2SIGNALAMP = 1 4ATTMIX = 7 2ENV = 7 2VCA = 15 TOPOGRAF = 1 SLOPE/EDGE = 4 2S&H = 1 NOISE = 2 MASTER I/O = 2 2OSC/d = 8 ALGODRONE = 2 MIXER 4-4 = 12 WAVEFOLDER = 8 SOLINA = 2 VCO = 12 VCADSR = 4 WASP = 2 NYLE = 2 SVFILTER = 2 MULTIFX = 1 DELAY = 2 SPRING REVERB = 2 (both with tanks) LOPAG = 2 HPAMP = 1 4I/O = 2
There's also a 4sp blank that's slated to have a Soundmachines Nanobridge mounted on it. Not all of these are currently available, so the plan is to leave those open until the modules in question hit the market. As for power, I'm going to be using a Tektronix PS282 linear supply, ferrites on all DC leads and 5A available, which will also be supplying other 9V devices in the "modular sandbox" area. Should be the quietest power conceivable for the system, with loads of room for more cabs later on. Also, this .json attachment for the AE Grid should be the final configuration that Robert's working from. My Rack13.json (36.57 KB) |
|
doc
New Member
Posts: 18
|
Post by doc on Oct 1, 2019 10:16:29 GMT
Sweet Jesus, that is a monster rig...
|
|
|
|
Post by rockysmalls on Oct 1, 2019 11:15:43 GMT
Lugia, do you have a breakdown of your gargantua system? This is the module rundown for it, as sent to Robert back in July (right around the time his pain issues flared up, unfortunately). Minus the acccessories, in four 20 x 2 cabs: SEQ16 = 3 3VCSWITCH = 4 LFO = 8 2ATT/CV = 3 STEP10 = 1 (if possible) BEAT DIVIDER = 2 TRIQ164 = 1 MM-DIV = 1 DIVIDER = 1 LOGIC = 2 OR2x4 = 2 QUANTIZER = 2 2SIGNALAMP = 1 4ATTMIX = 7 2ENV = 7 2VCA = 15 TOPOGRAF = 1 SLOPE/EDGE = 4 2S&H = 1 NOISE = 2 MASTER I/O = 2 2OSC/d = 8 ALGODRONE = 2 MIXER 4-4 = 12 WAVEFOLDER = 8 SOLINA = 2 VCO = 12 VCADSR = 4 WASP = 2 NYLE = 2 SVFILTER = 2 MULTIFX = 1 DELAY = 2 SPRING REVERB = 2 (both with tanks) LOPAG = 2 HPAMP = 1 4I/O = 2 There's also a 4sp blank that's slated to have a Soundmachines Nanobridge mounted on it. Not all of these are currently available, so the plan is to leave those open until the modules in question hit the market. As for power, I'm going to be using a Tektronix PS282 linear supply, ferrites on all DC leads and 5A available, which will also be supplying other 9V devices in the "modular sandbox" area. Should be the quietest power conceivable for the system, with loads of room for more cabs later on. Also, this .json attachment for the AE Grid should be the final configuration that Robert's working from.
“ look out there’s a monster coming!! “ i suspect it is the Algodrone & Solina modules holding yr order up.. Robert likes to make sure everything is complete before sending.. if you are feeling impatient you could ask him to send those modules on later... 8 rows of 20 !! i guess you have already filled 150 spaces aprox of the 160 available!! yikes! did you just inherit a fortune or did you re-mortgage? |
|
|
|
Post by moruial on Oct 1, 2019 11:18:07 GMT
Wow tha's for sure a big monster of synth there. I'm very curious about what you'll do with all that!
|
|
|
|
Post by Gaëtan on Oct 1, 2019 12:40:58 GMT
My opinion on the subject is that if you are really hesitating between Eurorack and AE, you're probably better off with AE. Not because AE is inherently better, but because I would not advice going into Eurorack unless you pretty much know what you want already, or you buy a complete pre-built system from a single manufacturer. With AE you don't have an endless choice of modules, so you'll be more focused, and since it's cheaper you'll feel less stuck if you feel like you need something more. I had a small Eurorack before and I ended up selling it all because I got tired of spending more time investigating modules than playing it. And yes, you can make some pretty cool stuff with a very small Eurorack, but only if you carefully choose your modules, and if you're a beginner it's going to be very frustrating.
Now that I have more experience I may have Eurorack again in the future, but it will be much more thought out.
|
|
|
|
Post by dmoney2000 on Oct 1, 2019 12:50:37 GMT
Hello everyone, just wanted to make a post to introduce myself to the forum as this seems like a really neat little community that I can see really growing in the future. I recently got bitten by the synth bug, maybe a year or two ago. I'd played around with VST synths and such in the past but I always reached for presets and never really thought much of the process of making a patch or sculpting a sound, until I played around with Native Instrument's version of the mini-moog, Monark. It's simple interface and limited number of controls really drew me in, looking like the easiest place to start to learn what synthesis was all about. After that first little taste of wiggling a (virtual) filter knob and listening to it respond, I was in. So I'm a few volcas deep now and I've been hungry for more, an environment for making electronic music outside of the PC. While the volcas are fun, they kind of direct you in a certain way with each individual flavour, so I've wanted something that I have much more control over and I can take in any musical direction I want. This is where the desire for modular came in. I've been saving money for a eurorack system and been in the process of planning what I wanted to get sometime next year. While asking for advice in a facebook group somebody suggested AE Modular to me, I'd never heard of it before and was really pleasantly surprised when I saw and heard it. Also, the fact the platform is so young is really exciting to me. So this goes either one of two ways. 1. I plan and purchase my AE Modular, am super satisfied with it, grow my system and continue to make music within the AE Modular ecosystem. 2. I plan and purchase my AE Modular, am super satisfied with it..."need more"..."must have more".....spend thousands of £ on eurorack anyway. Eitherway, I've changed my mind on going eurorack for now and plan to start building the AE Modular system that is right for me in the next month or so. Really looking forward to taking part in the patch challenges you've got here and maybe contributing music if you folks ever put together another AEther Waves album which I've been enjoying. Also, I'm Sean and I'm from Scotland Hey Sean, I know you want to get away from computers but while you’re waiting for your AE system I would recommend checking out modular software like VCV Rack or Audulus. If you’re new to the modular world, it will help you get some of the more obscure concepts down, and get the ideas flowing for what you will do when the real deal arrives. |
|
|
|
Post by cadenza on Oct 1, 2019 17:11:33 GMT
Hello everyone, just wanted to make a post to introduce myself to the forum as this seems like a really neat little community that I can see really growing in the future. I recently got bitten by the synth bug, maybe a year or two ago. I'd played around with VST synths and such in the past but I always reached for presets and never really thought much of the process of making a patch or sculpting a sound, until I played around with Native Instrument's version of the mini-moog, Monark. It's simple interface and limited number of controls really drew me in, looking like the easiest place to start to learn what synthesis was all about. After that first little taste of wiggling a (virtual) filter knob and listening to it respond, I was in. So I'm a few volcas deep now and I've been hungry for more, an environment for making electronic music outside of the PC. While the volcas are fun, they kind of direct you in a certain way with each individual flavour, so I've wanted something that I have much more control over and I can take in any musical direction I want. This is where the desire for modular came in. I've been saving money for a eurorack system and been in the process of planning what I wanted to get sometime next year. While asking for advice in a facebook group somebody suggested AE Modular to me, I'd never heard of it before and was really pleasantly surprised when I saw and heard it. Also, the fact the platform is so young is really exciting to me. So this goes either one of two ways. 1. I plan and purchase my AE Modular, am super satisfied with it, grow my system and continue to make music within the AE Modular ecosystem. 2. I plan and purchase my AE Modular, am super satisfied with it..."need more"..."must have more".....spend thousands of £ on eurorack anyway. Eitherway, I've changed my mind on going eurorack for now and plan to start building the AE Modular system that is right for me in the next month or so. Really looking forward to taking part in the patch challenges you've got here and maybe contributing music if you folks ever put together another AEther Waves album which I've been enjoying. Also, I'm Sean and I'm from Scotland Hey Sean, I know you want to get away from computers but while you’re waiting for your AE system I would recommend checking out modular software like VCV Rack or Audulus. If you’re new to the modular world, it will help you get some of the more obscure concepts down, and get the ideas flowing for what you will do when the real deal arrives. Been doing plenty of playing around in VCV Rack and Reaktor I made a post here about just that. forum.aemodular.com/thread/458/ae-modular |
|
Lugia
Wiki Editors
Ridiculously busy...ish.
Posts: 556
|
Post by Lugia on Oct 1, 2019 23:35:26 GMT
<abbr data-timestamp="1569928543000" title="Oct 1, 2019 6:15:43 GMT -5" class="o-timestamp time">Oct 1, 2019 6:15:43 GMT -5</abbr> rockysmalls said: 8 rows of 20 !! i guess you have already filled 150 spaces aprox of the 160 available!! yikes! Actually, if you open the .json in AE Grid, you'll note that the rig is technically filled. The gaps that're there are as follows:Top row left: 4sp blank for Nanobridge mounting. 2nd row (gaps left to right): 2x TRIP, MM-DIV, 2x QUANT. 3rd row (L to R again): TOPOGRAF, 2x SLOPE/EDGE. 4th row: 2x ALGODRONE, 2x SOLINA. 6th row: 2x SLOPE/EDGE. 7th row on left: 4x VCADSR. All 160 spaces filled; the gaps are there for things I'm waiting on. rockysmalls said: did you just inherit a fortune or did you re-mortgage? Neither. I was planning on a studio upgrade back in 2015 and started working out a budget that included a $12-14k allocation for a Eurorack system. The problems began arising when I started speccing the system size and kept finding that there wasn't a nice solution based on space requirements. Then, when trying to build this putative Eurorack system in MG, the cost kept overrunning...not fun at all. I then encountered the AE system while poking around on YouTube in late 2017 and made a mental note of it, then I picked Robert's brain at the beginning of 2018 about AE, where he was taking it, what was upcoming...and I decided that this was THE solution. The size factor is excellent, given the functional density of the system...it easily rivals Eurorack. And the cost...wow! I'm able to save $7-8k over the _original_ Eurorack allocation, which isn't a fair comparison tbh, because I actually put together a "replication" of the Gargantua on MG with basic modules (lots of Doepfer, etc) and the cost SOARED to around $22k for just the module compliment alone! (Apologies for ugly post formatting)
|
|
