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Post by misterholiday on Sept 5, 2022 18:35:56 GMT
TL;DR: 1) Thoughts on this 16x2 rack for both CV/gate/logic/waveshaping fun and bread-and-butter sounds? 2) What module can I sacrifice for a Noise module?
Hi forum! This is my first post. I'm super interested in this format. Here's a tentative 16x2 system which I'd like people's thoughts on. Module selection is based on those I used to experiment with in my old Nord G2 which I sold years ago. I'm super into waveshaping and weird digital tones. Experimenting with lower level logic and CV/trigger manipulation is another favorite activity. Clocking sequencers and digital counters at audio rate is fun. Playing with CV: Mixing outputs of sequences with unequal lengths. Scaling and offsetting voltages! Running CVs through e-follower preamps to derive fun gates! Using quantizers for "bitrate" reduction is lovely. And of course I love sequencing the classic VCO>VCF>VCA patches: BOM-bum-bum-bum-BIM-bum-bum-bum... I'd like to be able to run two voices at once. Maybe with a third glitchy/bytebeat/lofi voice. My question: Does this look like a capable system for such activities? I do plan on future expansion, but this would have to do for a while. I might get the Wasp instead of MS-20 filter. My other question: What can I drop to make room for the Noise module? I'm thinking maybe the third 2ENV? I want that third 2ENV, but I think it's the only one that can go. I look forward to folks' thoughts. Attachments:
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Post by solipsistnation on Sept 6, 2022 2:00:03 GMT
You could swap out one 2ENV for the MODULATORS module: www.tangiblewaves.com/store/p152/MODULATORS.htmlThat gives you 1 envelope and an LFO, and if you're thinking of using the noise module for modulation, you get random modulation. (If you're thinking of using noise for audio noise, it's less useful.) The one thing I think you're missing is a buffered mult. How about this: micromodules: www.tangiblewaves.com/store/c20/Micro_Modules.html- uS&H/Random/Noise -- gives you noise and modulation in 1/3 of a space - u4Buffer -- 4 buffered 1->2 buffered mults - u4Logic -- 4 logic functions Replace the logic module with a micromodule backplane and those 3 and you get everything you want, I think. |
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Post by misterholiday on Sept 6, 2022 13:51:02 GMT
This is helpful, perhaps most because it helps me clarify what I'm looking for. I do want audio-rate noise, especially the digital flavor, so that would indicate the Noise module. I appreciate the suggestion of the three micro-modules, especially the logic one, but I am concerned about it being really, really cramped. Although, swapping the Logic for those 3 suggested micro-modules would leave me with the 3 2ENV, which would be nice. Whether or not that's worth sacrificing digital noise, I'll have to think about.
Digital noise & 2x2ENV, with better ergonomics for the Logic module... Or lose Logic, add, 3 micro-modules, and keep the third 2ENV, or perhaps swap it for Modulators...
This is great food for thought.
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Post by solipsistnation on Sept 6, 2022 16:10:01 GMT
I don't think it'll be too cramped. I'd maybe put the micromodules on the end of a row rather than in the middle if you're worried about that. The micro s&h/noise modules does do audio-rate noise rather than just modulation: wiki.aemodular.com/pmwiki.php/AeManual/USH-RNDM-NOISE |
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pol
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Post by pol on Sept 6, 2022 20:04:33 GMT
You may find this video useful to help decide re filter, the only problem is there are soem new ones since this video was released.
I personally would suggest the Kuzmin if you want a more rowdy/"angry" sound and it is more flexible than the Wasp, a few options with its switches etc. This mixer comparison may help you (or make it worse!):-
Other than that your suggestion looks good, make sure you buy plenty of patch wires!
Pol.
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Post by misterholiday on Sept 8, 2022 8:43:53 GMT
Do you know if this micromodule has digital or analog noise? - uS&H/Random/Noise -- gives you noise and modulation in 1/3 of a space |
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Post by pt3r on Sept 8, 2022 9:07:31 GMT
What is the difference?
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Post by misterholiday on Sept 8, 2022 9:31:04 GMT
I'm not sure I'll need this. Most of the CV sources in this system have at least duplicate outputs. Those are buffered, correct? I don't see myself needing a precise CV sent to more than 2 oscillators at once. The one thing I think you're missing is a buffered mult. |
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Post by misterholiday on Sept 8, 2022 9:41:22 GMT
Technically I'm not sure. But from an "aesthetic" viewpoint digital noise sounds grainier, grittier. IMO, at least. Maybe there are a few kinds of digital noise, too. I'm pretty ignorant about this. Basically, from my POV, analog noise sounds more hissy or rumbly, while digital noise sounds growlier, crisper? (Lol, I feel like I'm doing the thing with adjectives that marketers do when describing analog with adjectives like "phat" and "warm," even "authentic," lol.) If anyone with more technical knowledge can chime in that would be great. The Noise module offers both flavors, digital and analog. What's exciting to me about that module is that the noise is tunable, at least the digital. I imagine that's just controlling the sample rate. What's not clear to me from the manual is whether or not the digital output on that module simply fluctuates between 0/5V or whether the intermediate voltages are used, as well. If anyone knows the answer to this, I'd love to hear it, as well. This forum has been really helpful to me so far, BTW. Thanks, all! |
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Post by pt3r on Sept 8, 2022 10:41:26 GMT
I see now what you mean... the Noise module of tangible waves can create both analog (i.e. fluctuating voltages between 1 and 4v) and digital noise (voltages being either 0v or 5v), I'm pretty sure the micro module will have the same functionalities. you can always smooth out your noise by sending it through a slew/edge module to change it's characteristics.
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Post by solipsistnation on Sept 8, 2022 15:49:49 GMT
I'm not sure I'll need this. Most of the CV sources in this system have at least duplicate outputs. Those are buffered, correct? I don't see myself needing a precise CV sent to more than 2 oscillators at once. The one thing I think you're missing is a buffered mult. I'm honestly not sure if multiple outputs are buffered. Mostly I've run into issues in the past with voltage drop from sending things to multiple oscillators or triggers making it go noticeably out of tune, or causing the occasional clock (or trigger/gate) signal to drop below whatever the target module expected and thus make it lose steps or get out of sync or just not play. It seems like it's worth it in case you run into that kind of thing, since it can be really hard to figure out what's going on when it happens. |
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Post by misterholiday on Sept 9, 2022 8:31:51 GMT
I'm not sure I'll need this. Most of the CV sources in this system have at least duplicate outputs. Those are buffered, correct? I don't see myself needing a precise CV sent to more than 2 oscillators at once. I'm honestly not sure if multiple outputs are buffered. Mostly I've run into issues in the past with voltage drop from sending things to multiple oscillators or triggers making it go noticeably out of tune, or causing the occasional clock (or trigger/gate) signal to drop below whatever the target module expected and thus make it lose steps or get out of sync or just not play. It seems like it's worth it in case you run into that kind of thing, since it can be really hard to figure out what's going on when it happens. Okay, this is very good info. |
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Post by misterholiday on Sept 9, 2022 9:32:19 GMT
Okay, I think I may have figured something out. I'm not sure I need pitch CV quantization. So I think I may be able to go without the Quantizer! This would give me one space for the Noise module. Easy access to pitched digital noise is a big benefit of Noise. I would lose the ability to use continuous pitches to generate cool wandering melodies (e.g. 2ENV>Quantizer>2OSC/d), but I may be able to live with that compromise. It will make it harder to send whatever CV to VCOs for melodic results. But I'm more of a bug music guy anyway, lol. I'm still hesitant to go with micromodules. My fingers are stubby, so I'm already concerned about the ergonomics of this system. I think going micro might just be too much of a crunch! But no micro would be kind of a bummer, because I like the looks of uDistortion. I'll talk this over with my girlfriend, who is a former professional-track cellist whose father was active in the 1970s avante-garde music scene. (He's on the b-side of On the Other Ocean by Behrman!!!) She's great for helping determine an artistic goal, then working out means to that end. I'll figure this out one of these days New rack attached. Attachments:
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pol
Wiki Editors
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Post by pol on Sept 9, 2022 15:48:25 GMT
Okay, I think I may have figured something out. I'm not sure I need pitch CV quantization. So I think I may be able to go without the Quantizer! This would give me one space for the Noise module. Easy access to pitched digital noise is a big benefit of Noise. I would lose the ability to use continuous pitches to generate cool wandering melodies (e.g. 2ENV>Quantizer>2OSC/d), but I may be able to live with that compromise. It will make it harder to send whatever CV to VCOs for melodic results. But I'm more of a bug music guy anyway, lol. I'm still hesitant to go with micromodules. My fingers are stubby, so I'm already concerned about the ergonomics of this system. I think going micro might just be too much of a crunch! But no micro would be kind of a bummer, because I like the looks of uDistortion. I'll talk this over with my girlfriend, who is a former professional-track cellist whose father was active in the 1970s avante-garde music scene. (He's on the b-side of On the Other Ocean by Behrman!!!) She's great for helping determine an artistic goal, then working out means to that end. I'll figure this out one of these days New rack attached. Personally, if you it 100% correct first time you ought to be running the country! I would expect that, after using for a while you will be going "oh, need another LFO, did need the ..... I didn't get etc.", then there's G.A.S., new modules that do something you would really like, (2Auto by Kyaa is my next!) and. most of all, change......
Whatever you decided remember the journey is the destination, and enjoy!
Pol.
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Post by misterholiday on Sept 9, 2022 17:27:27 GMT
Okay, I think I may have figured something out. I'm not sure I need pitch CV quantization. So I think I may be able to go without the Quantizer! This would give me one space for the Noise module. Easy access to pitched digital noise is a big benefit of Noise. I would lose the ability to use continuous pitches to generate cool wandering melodies (e.g. 2ENV>Quantizer>2OSC/d), but I may be able to live with that compromise. It will make it harder to send whatever CV to VCOs for melodic results. But I'm more of a bug music guy anyway, lol. I'm still hesitant to go with micromodules. My fingers are stubby, so I'm already concerned about the ergonomics of this system. I think going micro might just be too much of a crunch! But no micro would be kind of a bummer, because I like the looks of uDistortion. I'll talk this over with my girlfriend, who is a former professional-track cellist whose father was active in the 1970s avante-garde music scene. (He's on the b-side of On the Other Ocean by Behrman!!!) She's great for helping determine an artistic goal, then working out means to that end. I'll figure this out one of these days New rack attached. Personally, if you it 100% correct first time you ought to be running the country! I would expect that, after using for a while you will be going "oh, need another LFO, did need the ..... I didn't get etc.", then there's G.A.S., new modules that do something you would really like, (2Auto by Kyaa is my next!) and. most of all, change......
Whatever you decided remember the journey is the destination, and enjoy!
Pol.
You're right, you're right! Thanks, all, for your input. |
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Post by misterholiday on Sept 28, 2022 16:52:38 GMT
Here's an update. I placed an order! Due to financial constraints, I downsized the 16x2 system I was going to order to a 12x2. An image is attached. Where the DIY panel is shown on the bottom, I ordered the following: uLogic, uS&H, and uProbagate. I'm losing a lot of CV and trigger generation and manipulation from the 16x2, but have replaced it with some additional audio manipulation. And I've gone down from two full voices plus Algodrone, to one voice plus Algodrone. (Of course I can still run two one-oscillator voices if I wish.) And there's no Envelope Follower for processing external audio. The system itself is now, with the addition of MultiFX, more self-contained. I'm really excited about this system. I'm especially eager to work with MultiFX earlier in the signal chain (before filters, waveshaper, VCAs, etc.) and to play with uProbagate for generating semirandom envelope modulation triggers. Plus it will be super fun for Algodrone to have its own filter. Also it will be nice having full-featured VCOs for setting up complex intermodulations. All in all this system is geared more towards audio generation/manipulation than the 16x2. I'm grateful to the forum, especially, for steering me in the direction of uModules. (I'm already planning a one-voice expansion which will include Cirrus -- whenever it's available again. So this baby will not be the only of its kind in my home, very soon!) Attachments:
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pol
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Posts: 1,277
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Post by pol on Sept 29, 2022 19:54:55 GMT
Here's an update. I placed an order! Due to financial constraints, I downsized the 16x2 system I was going to order to a 12x2. An image is attached. Where the DIY panel is shown on the bottom, I ordered the following: uLogic, uS&H, and uProbagate. I'm losing a lot of CV and trigger generation and manipulation from the 16x2, but have replaced it with some additional audio manipulation. And I've gone down from two full voices plus Algodrone, to one voice plus Algodrone. (Of course I can still run two one-oscillator voices if I wish.) And there's no Envelope Follower for processing external audio. The system itself is now, with the addition of MultiFX, more self-contained. I'm really excited about this system. I'm especially eager to work with MultiFX earlier in the signal chain (before filters, waveshaper, VCAs, etc.) and to play with uProbagate for generating semirandom envelope modulation triggers. Plus it will be super fun for Algodrone to have its own filter. Also it will be nice having full-featured VCOs for setting up complex intermodulations. All in all this system is geared more towards audio generation/manipulation than the 16x2. I'm grateful to the forum, especially, for steering me in the direction of uModules. (I'm already planning a one-voice expansion which will include Cirrus -- whenever it's available again. So this baby will not be the only of its kind in my home, very soon!) This could well be a case of less is more,  Hope you bought lots of patch wires with that array in front of you (soon  ). Hope to hear some of your learnings on the forum sometime. |
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Post by misterholiday on Oct 1, 2022 11:34:25 GMT
I totally agree! I think my constraints have resulted in what might be a more focused, powerful system with plenty of room for module function deep-diving and experimental patching. This feels like a machine I'll enjoy pushing to its limits.
But I wish I had taken a better look at WS RBSS... I think a pair of those might be more exciting than Algodrone. More lower-level play! In general I think I'll enjoy swapping out modules here and there. That's life in Modulartopia, I guess...
I included in my order 3 patch wire starter kits. I hope that'll be enough!
I'll be sure to post some interesting findings on the forum.
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Hope you bought lots of patch wires with that array in front of you (soon 
). Hope to hear some of your learnings on the forum sometime.