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Post by Daniel Linger on Nov 5, 2020 13:55:25 GMT
Hi all,
I bought a Solina module a few weeks ago (more like a couple of months) and haven't had much chance to have a bash with it as I've been ill (disability related stuff, not COVID thankfully), so perhaps I should have got on top of this sooner.
I've been a bit puzzled by things as I've read the documentation, so I thought I knew how it worked and what to expect. I've managed to easily get most of what I wanted out of it - running through triggered chord dequences by using the TRIQ64 to pulse the Chord CV up and down accordingly.
However, the thing that loses me is keyboard control.
I would like to point out at this stage that when I first got the module, the +1 octave switch immediately broke. I'm not bothered by this as that's easily my most unused switch of all; easy to workaround.
But no matter how I set the pots (and yes, I know to runthe CHORD setting all the way full anti-clockwise) any MIDI keyboard will only play a handful of notes (by notes, I mean ALL the notes of the chord are played fine, but the keyboard keys themselves will not instigate change excpet a handful of them).
For example, assuming I have it set to the most basic - C major. CHORD pot full anti-clockwise, switches set to no 4th, bass on or off - I thought it would either play the chords represented by the notes in a C major scale. So in this case, all the white notes on the keyboard. Nope, I get C, D, F, G and not a lot else (occasionally another).
It seems to vary a bit whenever I move to another setting such as more elaborate chord structure (such as diminished) but it still dwells on about 4 or 5 keys playing chords, some of which are the same chords.
Am I missing something? Or is this wonky?
Thanks for you time.
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bert
Junior Member
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Post by bert on Nov 5, 2020 17:24:13 GMT
I also haven't figured out exactly what the CHORD and CHORD VAR controls do. But I'm pretty sure that the CV input is simply a voltage control for the CHORD knob, and that it's not in any way 1V/oct (so not really meant to be played by a keyboard). This confused me too at first. I also expected something along the lines of what you said.
I would love to understand better what the CHORD and CHORD VAR controls do, as I think this is needed to make the instrument really useful: I'd like to be able to consciously create specific chord progressions rather than just play with the sequence until something nice comes out.
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Post by solipsistnation on Nov 5, 2020 19:13:02 GMT
CHORD VAR adjusts the chord voicing. So it's the same chord but you get different inversions and stuff.
There's some documentation here:
But yes, it's missing some important parts...
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bert
Junior Member
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Post by bert on Nov 5, 2020 19:31:52 GMT
Yeah, the documentation is definitely a good starting point, but I'd be great to know the exact chords that are selected for each setting (CHORD + CHORD VAR + SCALE + 4th NOTE). The documentation also mentions raised and lowered thirds and fifths, which are actually different chords, aren't they?
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Lugia
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Post by Lugia on Nov 5, 2020 21:54:12 GMT
Yeah, the documentation is definitely a good starting point, but I'd be great to know the exact chords that are selected for each setting (CHORD + CHORD VAR + SCALE + 4th NOTE). The documentation also mentions raised and lowered thirds and fifths, which are actually different chords, aren't they?
Yep...CHORD does the basic triadic stuff, VAR changes inversions and some modalities, SCALE forces the pitches from the first two to conform to a certain scale/mode, and 4TH NOTE handles the placement of an extension, such as an +7, +6, +9 and so on.
While I don't have one of these on hand, it would seem that the best way to approach the module would be to make sure that the SCALE conforms to the rest of what you're doing first, then select the base triad and have at the rest of the parameters from that point.
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Post by NightMachines on Nov 5, 2020 22:25:26 GMT
As I wrote the wiki entry, let me chime in  There is no 1V/oct pitch CV control on the Solina, only chord selection CV control. You tune the root note chord and then use CV to select the chords of the selected scale over two octaves (I think). So it is not meant to be played like a traditional VCO, but rather like a backing track module controlled by a sequencer, on top of which you’d play melodies with a normal VCO and keyboard. |
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Post by solipsistnation on Nov 5, 2020 22:38:00 GMT
--- what I'm trying to quote: "4TH NOTE handles the placement of an extension, such as an +7, +6, +9 and so on."
I'm not sure this is correct. You get a 4th note gate, not a CV, and it's just a switch for bass (1 octave below the root) or a 7th, plus on and off.
It would be cool to have a roaming note you could control with a second CV though. |
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Post by Daniel Linger on Nov 6, 2020 2:28:19 GMT
As I wrote the wiki entry, let me chime in There is no 1V/oct pitch CV control on the Solina, only chord selection CV control. You tune the root note chord and then use CV to select the chords of the selected scale over two octaves (I think). So it is not meant to be played like a traditional VCO, but rather like a backing track module controlled by a sequencer, on top of which you’d play melodies with a normal VCO and keyboard. Thank you for the input (and thanks everyone for the answers here). I never expected it to have full keyboard resolution like a VCO would have, but I was just checking that everything was correct ans the layout is weird. For example, using the Cmaj setting I said above, if I go up the scale C plays a chord, then D, then F, the G. Sometimes A too but rarely. All other keys do nothing. Because of this I was concerned that something was awry as It didn;t make much sense to me. If that's how it's intended, fair enough. I echo some of the comments above though - it's difficult to know what chord sequences you're getting on the fly, and it does seem rather unintuitive for that reason. To be perfectly frank, the reason I was using the keyboard in the first place was because I was trying to do say a I, IV, V sequence, but if I trigger the Chord + or - I can't jump from V directly to I without having to go through (and sound) IV first. So, a trigger sequence would play - I, IV, V, IV, I. When I want say, I, IV, V, I. This is largely why the weird keyboard setup threw me off. I completely couldn't keep track of where I was half the time. I hope this explains things a bit better. But in any case, I fully admit I could be missing stuff, and I wouldn't be surprised if there's a better way to do what I want and I'm just missing it. Thanks again everyone for the input. |
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Post by NightMachines on Nov 6, 2020 6:58:35 GMT
I totally understand and I think this is another example of how people use their modular synths differently and how decisions have to be made when designing a module. For example I almost never use a keyboard with my AE Modular, so I don’t miss the 1V/Oct input on the Solina and just dial in the desired chord sequence with one of my sequencers. I’m also not great with music theory, so I like that I can just get the chords of a certain scale which will always “fit together” and not have to worry about the chords in between. Of course, a 1V/Oct input would allow people to create their own scales, which would be cool as well. I’m sure Robert had thought of that too, but had to choose between this or another feature, for example due to limited analog input ports on the microcontroller.
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bert
Junior Member
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Post by bert on Nov 6, 2020 13:48:11 GMT
using the Cmaj setting I said above, if I go up the scale C plays a chord, then D, then F, the G. Sometimes A too but rarely. All other keys do nothing.
I guess you could use MIDI notes to control CHORD, though you would need 5 octaves on your keyboard to cover the whole range of 15 chords (2 octaves) that are in the CHORD knob. So that would be a very bad idea. Maybe some keyboards or software out there allow mapping keys to CC values? Not sure if that exists, but I can see a possible workaround there. With a MIDI-to-CV interface you could then produce the required voltages. Another solution could be to somehow scale up a 1V/oct signal within the AEM. (We'd need some custom circuitry for that I guess.)
OK, using CHORD + and - for this just doesn't make sense. In fact, to me personally these inputs are rather useless in general, since the chord sequence is a preset that can not be changed. The only sensible way to do what you want is to hook up a CV sequencer (or one of the workarounds I mentioned) to the CHORD input. Of course, a 1V/Oct input would allow people to create their own scales, which would be cool as well.
Not sure what you mean by "own scales". As far as I can tell, with a single input you can't do much more than select the (quantized) base note of your chord. The other notes still have to be filled in according to some predefined scale, right?
Yeah. Or maybe it's because the non-constant intervals between notes in a scale just made it non-trivial to implement (i.e. not just a matter of increasing the sensitivity of the input).
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Post by Daniel Linger on Nov 6, 2020 18:26:18 GMT
Excellent response. That's what I was looking for (though I may not have realised it).
Yeah, I was kind of tinkering with what I had to hand. So I get that using the Chord + and - wasn't a good idea, but I was just trying to get a resulting chord progression the only way I could see. I don't have a CV sequencer - I have plenty of normal MIDI sequencers though.
I kind of got that I was looking at this all the wrong way, but I wanted to be sure.
Well, the upshot of this is adding a CV sequencer to my list of things to buy soon is a bonus!
Cheers for this response. As always, ALL responses are much appreciated. Even if I don't get what I'm looking for, I ALWAYS get something out of it.
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bert
Junior Member
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Post by bert on Nov 6, 2020 23:48:08 GMT
One more thought. If you already have plenty of MIDI gear you could also consider getting an extra MIDI-to-CV interface. That is, one with more ports than the MASTER module. You can use the MASTER module for one melody line and one CC controller, so you'll soon find yourself needing more. The Midimuso, which was discussed in a few other threads, is cheap and does the job well.
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Lugia
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Ridiculously busy...ish.
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Post by Lugia on Nov 8, 2020 19:20:00 GMT
One more thought. If you already have plenty of MIDI gear you could also consider getting an extra MIDI-to-CV interface. Or take the logical step beyond that and get a DC-coupled audio interface and use Silent Way, Volta, Ableton's CV Tools, etc. As long as you can stipulate what the interface can put out and how, this works great...and it's bidirectional if you get an 8x8 device like the considered-obsolete-for-audio-but-not-this MOTU 828mkii. |
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Post by slowscape on Nov 9, 2020 3:02:47 GMT
NightMachines you’re answer was very helpful for me, I’m going to explore different ways of using my solina! I found that it seems to play a different chord every other key on the keyboard. Not being classically trained I just mash keys until I find a winning combo then record my song before I forget what sounded good 😅
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derp
New Member
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Post by derp on Nov 14, 2020 17:33:06 GMT
Great topic! I ordered the Solina with the idea of chord switching, and it turns out that it doesn't work like an ordinary oscillator, but I like it more for that reason. Can't wait for mine to ship!
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Post by funbun on Nov 15, 2020 7:26:41 GMT
I use Solina to get those Steve Reich-like sounding patterns such as or even .
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There is no 1V/oct pitch CV control on the Solina, only chord selection CV control. You tune the root note chord and then use CV to select the chords of the selected scale over two octaves (I think). So it is not meant to be played like a traditional VCO, but rather like a backing track module controlled by a sequencer, on top of which you’d play melodies with a normal VCO and keyboard.
