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Post by sycophante on Sept 16, 2019 15:46:10 GMT
Hello every one!
I'm interested in improving my range of possibilities of sequencing with AEM think this could go through buying an external sequencer.
I'm thinking if I do this, my main choice seems to be between Korg SQ-1 and Arturia Beatstep Pro, for their capabilities and range of price.
I think SQ-1 seems to be so simple and also very versatile, and being new to dawless music, it could give me a lot of possibilities for creation and improvement. I like the fact that its design is really close to an external module. It seems it can also be scaled to fit AEM as best with the 5v/oct range offered for each separated voice.
One potential drawback : it has the same sync in and sync out socket that volca fm, and the sync in socket never worked for me (volca sequencer ended up jumping too much steps for one trig out of the trig 164) did anyone have the same problem ?
I also lurk at the beatstep pro for quite a long time now. It seems loaded with possibilities but I still have some doubts like :
- Is the "one-brain-for-all-your-gear" stuff so interesting when you mainly want to control modular ? (not saying i'll never be interested in this, it's just not how I'm building my set up right now)
- Could the complexity of it be overwhelming ?
- Last but not least : is the 10v scale never a pain in the ass ?
So what do you guys and girls think ?
Is external sequencing important for you ? Have you tried one or both of those ? Wich one works best with AEM for you ?
Thanks for your answers, and feel free to share any thought you have I just love to read any thread on this forum!
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Post by spacedog on Sept 16, 2019 16:56:47 GMT
Hello every one! I'm interested in improving my range of possibilities of sequencing with AEM think this could go through buying an external sequencer. I'm thinking if I do this, my main choice seems to be between Korg SQ-1 and Arturia Beatstep Pro, for their capabilities and range of price. I think SQ-1 seems to be so simple and also very versatile, and being new to dawless music, it could give me a lot of possibilities for creation and improvement. I like the fact that its design is really close to an external module. It seems it can also be scaled to fit AEM as best with the 5v/oct range offered for each separated voice. One potential drawback : it has the same sync in and sync out socket that volca fm, and the sync in socket never worked for me (volca sequencer ended up jumping too much steps for one trig out of the trig 164) did anyone have the same problem ? I also lurk at the beatstep pro for quite a long time now. It seems loaded with possibilities but I still have some doubts like : - Is the "one-brain-for-all-your-gear" stuff so interesting when you mainly want to control modular ? (not saying i'll never be interested in this, it's just not how I'm building my set up right now) - Could the complexity of it be overwhelming ? - Last but not least : is the 10v scale never a pain in the ass ? So what do you guys and girls think ? Is external sequencing important for you ? Have you tried one or both of those ? Wich one works best with AEM for you ? Thanks for your answers, and feel free to share any thought you have I just love to read any thread on this forum! Mmmmm, sequencing, that got me out of my hole  Whether you need an additional (I assume that you have the SQ16...?) sequencer does rather depend upon the style of music that you play. The problem that you might have is that most people will buy one or the other and then learn how to use it - I did that with the BeatStep Pro, which I love. I'm sure that the SQ-1 does an excellent job, but when it came time to buy one or the other, I chose the BeatStep Pro for the its ability (in my eyes) to be a live instrument, which is how I try to use sequencers. I have sequenced the AE Modular a lot with the BeatStep Pro and the really simple solution is to use MIDI if the CVs don't do it for you. You can, of course, mix them and use MIDI to send pitch information and then use the Gate and Velocity via the individual outputs, if you want. The BeatStep Pro also has two sequencer lines and a drum line, so there's a lot you can do with it live. Combine it with the pattern chaining update and you have quite the monster. As an aside, anything that uses 1V/octave has the potential to produce voltages greater than 5V - you simply have to set where 0V is and then use the sequencer appropriately. Not many people are sequencing over more than five octaves To answer your specific questions: I have used the BeatStep Pro a lot with my AE Modular and it works really well. Yes, external sequencing is very important for my style of music and the ability to really play the sequencer is important to me. I can only comment on the BeatStep as I haven't used the SQ-1. |
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Post by Gaëtan on Sept 16, 2019 18:23:20 GMT
That's interesting, I was just pondering external sequencers today. Is there any interesting alternative in that price range ?
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Post by NightMachines on Sept 16, 2019 19:38:21 GMT
I’ve owned both the Beatstep Pro and SQ-1, but haven’t used either with the AE Modular. Like spacedog said, the BSP is really versatile and it’s quite an “instrument” by itself. The SQ-1 is very basic and I while that can be fun, I didn’t really use it that much for pitch CV but more often for other modulation, because the little translucent knobs weren’t that easy to work with precisely for me. So, I’d recommend the BSP |
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Post by spacedog on Sept 16, 2019 20:19:45 GMT
That's interesting, I was just pondering external sequencers today. Is there any interesting alternative in that price range ? If you only need a simple sequencer, the one built in to the Arturia KeyStep is more than adequate, plus you get Modulation and Pitch available as CV outputs and a Gate. The keybed is quite decent for the price as well, with aftertouch via MIDI. As before, it depends on what you want to do with a sequencer. If it's complicated live sequencing across more than one instrument, then it's the BeatStep Pro. If it's a simple sequence with limited interaction (although you can switch between sequences), then the KeyStep can do well. The BeatStep (not the Pro) is a good simple sequencer, but for a small amount more you can get the KeyStep with a decent sequencer (and arpeggiator) thrown in. You have to start paying a bit more before other decent items come into view - IMO, of course. |
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pol
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Post by pol on Sept 16, 2019 20:35:55 GMT
I'm a big fan of the Beatstep Pro, though it can be a complicated beast. I have created a user set up (via the PC) and just use it that one way now, and is a joy. The multiple connections are great, and ability to be master or slave with tempo. The SQ-16, for me, is more of a toy - no midi sync for instance so you can't set tempo from a normal drum machine for instance. It will sync with Volcas etc. so it depends on what you intend your set up to be. If you want something simpler than the BSP, someone has already mention the Keystep - well worth a look, and a Midi &/or Gate/CV keyboard will ,always have a use somewhere! I would certainly pick that over the SQ16 just for the "Bang for your bucks" - for £10 more you get much more kit, and much better connectivity for the future.
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Post by sycophante on Sept 16, 2019 21:10:20 GMT
Mmmmm, sequencing, that got me out of my hole Whether you need an additional (I assume that you have the SQ16...?) sequencer does rather depend upon the style of music that you play. The problem that you might have is that most people will buy one or the other and then learn how to use it - I did that with the BeatStep Pro, which I love. I'm sure that the SQ-1 does an excellent job, but when it came time to buy one or the other, I chose the BeatStep Pro for the its ability (in my eyes) to be a live instrument, which is how I try to use sequencers. I have sequenced the AE Modular a lot with the BeatStep Pro and the really simple solution is to use MIDI if the CVs don't do it for you. You can, of course, mix them and use MIDI to send pitch information and then use the Gate and Velocity via the individual outputs, if you want. The BeatStep Pro also has two sequencer lines and a drum line, so there's a lot you can do with it live. Combine it with the pattern chaining update and you have quite the monster. As an aside, anything that uses 1V/octave has the potential to produce voltages greater than 5V - you simply have to set where 0V is and then use the sequencer appropriately. Not many people are sequencing over more than five octaves To answer your specific questions: I have used the BeatStep Pro a lot with my AE Modular and it works really well. Yes, external sequencing is very important for my style of music and the ability to really play the sequencer is important to me. I can only comment on the BeatStep as I haven't used the SQ-1. Funnily enough, yesterday I did a live BeatStep Pro sequencer recording. It doesn't use the AE Modular, I'm afraid, so step away now if you don't want to hear my Waldorf. It does however show off some of the potential of what the sequencer can do with some interesting poly rhythms against a dotted-eighth delay and by using the sequencer as an instrument live The lead line was just tacked on to whilst I had the analogue effects chain set up. Thanks for this extensive review of my questions! About my style of play : To be honest I've been droning and noising a lot with my system wich has been fun but it is a bit too much of a wormhole so I can make something meaningfull out of it XD I think holding to more melodic and rhythmic structures might help and even though they give great creative possibilities, combining trig164 and seq16 doesn't help too much for now (though I do need more work on this). Still need a bit of thinking if it's GAS or not ^^ I definitely want something to play (as you told well) since even as "bedroom producer" I picture my recording process as recording one full performance and maybe edit it. For now waiting for more answers, but what you told about and did with the BSP are really strong arguments
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Lugia
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Post by Lugia on Sept 16, 2019 22:00:20 GMT
I have both of these, as well as a Keystep. A few observations...
The SQ-1's "Littlebits" output is 0-5V scaled, but I'm not 100% that the scalar values are 1:1 with the AE's. Also, it's worth noting that the SQ-1 is _only_ a sequencer; you don't have any controller possibilities as such with it. Nevertheless, it's possible to put a few of them together to yield a decent sequencing environment for cheap.
The BSP is much more of a controller, in addition to being a sequencer. I've used mine for quite a few things...sequencing MIDI devices, as a controller, as a drum machine sequencer...in addition to CV/gate sequencing work.. As for rescaling it for AE, this should be relatively easy in Arturia's software environment. But it's also worth noting that everything on the BSP can be clocked _differently_...you aren't locked into a single clock's tempo, so both step sequencer and the trigger sequencer can all be running at very different tempi, and this can be useful for generative work, nonrepeating structures, etc.
Then there's the Keystep. Looks like a mini keyboard, but it also houses a polyphonic sequencer...although it only outputs a monophonic CV/gate/exp channel. The poly function works in MIDI, though. This is the most controller-like one of this bunch, since you not only get a velocity-sensitive 2 1/2 octave keyboard, you have ribbons for pitchbend and mod, and those _or_ the velocity can be assigned to the exp CV output as desired. There's also an arpeggiator, plus octave transposition controls.
Price-wise, the SQ-1 is the winner here. You can buy two of these new and still have beer money left for the price of the BSP. The Keystep actually falls in the middle at $149.
But as far as functionality...well, they're all sort of different. Yes, they're all sequencers. But once you go beyond that, each has a rather different feature set, and I'm not inclined to equate one with the other, which is one reason I own all three. Each has its uses in different but related situations, and all of them are cheap enough and useful enough to have on hand for differing tasks.
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Post by admin on Sept 17, 2019 6:26:56 GMT
I'm also currently thinking about the whole sequencing of my gear. I have the KeyStep and the SQ-1 and they play well together and also sync perfectly to my Volcas. However I find the SQ-1 too simplistic .. I already have the SEQ16 module for simple 16 step melody lines so I'm thinking of selling the SQ-1 and getting either the BeatStepPro or something that's more versatily like the Korg Electribe 2 which apparently can sequence up to 16 MIDI channels at the same time. Of course the Electribe is much more expensive than the BSPro ...
Or get into DAW sequencing ... but that to me is just not interesting, because I do like to "touch" my music.
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Post by NightMachines on Sept 17, 2019 7:11:05 GMT
like the Korg Electribe 2 which apparently can sequence up to 16 MIDI channels at the same time. Of course the Electribe is much more expensive than the BSPro ... Yeah!!! A used Electribe is around 100 bucks more expensive than a used BSP, although you can sometimes get the Electribe below 250 bucks, but that’s not very often (mine is pretty beat up on the outside, but fully working). The Electribe has 16 pads/tracks, each corresponding to a fixed MIDI channel from 1-16. It’s not super flexible when it comes to MIDI setup but for normal monophonic melody sequencing (and of course drum sequencing) it’s cool and intuitive. Plus, of course it’s a fully fledged groovebox with a synth or sampler built in. |
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Post by sycophante on Sept 17, 2019 9:54:35 GMT
I have both of these, as well as a Keystep. A few observations...
The SQ-1's "Littlebits" output is 0-5V scaled, but I'm not 100% that the scalar values are 1:1 with the AE's. Also, it's worth noting that the SQ-1 is _only_ a sequencer; you don't have any controller possibilities as such with it. Nevertheless, it's possible to put a few of them together to yield a decent sequencing environment for cheap.
The BSP is much more of a controller, in addition to being a sequencer. I've used mine for quite a few things...sequencing MIDI devices, as a controller, as a drum machine sequencer...in addition to CV/gate sequencing work.. As for rescaling it for AE, this should be relatively easy in Arturia's software environment. But it's also worth noting that everything on the BSP can be clocked _differently_...you aren't locked into a single clock's tempo, so both step sequencer and the trigger sequencer can all be running at very different tempi, and this can be useful for generative work, nonrepeating structures, etc.
Then there's the Keystep. Looks like a mini keyboard, but it also houses a polyphonic sequencer...although it only outputs a monophonic CV/gate/exp channel. The poly function works in MIDI, though. This is the most controller-like one of this bunch, since you not only get a velocity-sensitive 2 1/2 octave keyboard, you have ribbons for pitchbend and mod, and those _or_ the velocity can be assigned to the exp CV output as desired. There's also an arpeggiator, plus octave transposition controls.
Price-wise, the SQ-1 is the winner here. You can buy two of these new and still have beer money left for the price of the BSP. The Keystep actually falls in the middle at $149.
But as far as functionality...well, they're all sort of different. Yes, they're all sequencers. But once you go beyond that, each has a rather different feature set, and I'm not inclined to equate one with the other, which is one reason I own all three. Each has its uses in different but related situations, and all of them are cheap enough and useful enough to have on hand for differing tasks.
You're really right to point out the controller aspect of BSP since I think at some point playing melodies can hugely enhance my style. Though for the moment I'm more into step sequencing and I think Keystep is not what I immediately need, controller+sequencer surely is a decent option. Can you send aftertouch as cv from BSP (maybe using the software) ? I'm obsessed with aftertouch when it comes too playing ambient voices.
Also, yes I think eventually I won't avoid getting the three of them XD
Okay so maybe for the SQ-1 I need to wait for the quantum ^^ So you don't usually use external sequencing for AEM ? I'm just curious to know |
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Post by Gaëtan on Sept 17, 2019 10:51:29 GMT
As before, it depends on what you want to do with a sequencer. That is a great question I have been asking myself  I'm actually unsure. I think I'd like something that can talk to the modular in a two-way manner. A lot of external sequencers will send CV to the modular, but can't receive any (apart from clock), and I want the modular to be a bit more than a sound generator. I also want something very hands-on and ephemeral because I know that if I start working on a project in a "classic" way I hardly ever finish anything. There's a lot of choice in Eurorack but I'm wondering if there's anything stand-alone out there.
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Post by admin on Sept 20, 2019 2:48:15 GMT
As before, it depends on what you want to do with a sequencer. That is a great question I have been asking myself I'm actually unsure. I think I'd like something that can talk to the modular in a two-way manner. A lot of external sequencers will send CV to the modular, but can't receive any (apart from clock), and I want the modular to be a bit more than a sound generator. I also want something very hands-on and ephemeral because I know that if I start working on a project in a "classic" way I hardly ever finish anything. There's a lot of choice in Eurorack but I'm wondering if there's anything stand-alone out there.
Maybe have a look at the Squarp Pyramid sequencer. It has both cv out and in. It’s pricey, but it seems to be the most versatile pure sequencer out there, I believe thetechnobear has one? Here is one of Loopops fantastic videos about it |
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Post by Gaëtan on Sept 20, 2019 11:05:00 GMT
Yes I have seen a few videos about it already, I think it looks super interesting, however it is totally out of my budget for now.
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pol
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Post by pol on Sept 20, 2019 15:46:55 GMT
As before, it depends on what you want to do with a sequencer. That is a great question I have been asking myself I'm actually unsure. I think I'd like something that can talk to the modular in a two-way manner. A lot of external sequencers will send CV to the modular, but can't receive any (apart from clock), and I want the modular to be a bit more than a sound generator. I also want something very hands-on and ephemeral because I know that if I start working on a project in a "classic" way I hardly ever finish anything. There's a lot of choice in Eurorack but I'm wondering if there's anything stand-alone out there.
From what you're saying, I would be very tempted just to get the SEQ16 module for your AE, and not worry about the SQ-16 as all - you don't have to have external sequencing! The SEQ16 is actually more versatile but doesn't have the connections to other synths, but lots connections for the AE..... One day, when budget allows get a drum machine, or other midi device to provide the clock into the master module so you can sync the AE with the rest of your gear via that (you'd need the beat divider module if you don't want your sequences to go berserk). the SEQ 16 has live knobs to twiddle, and you can put various CVs/gates into it to muck it about - good fun! SEQ16 is cheaper than the SQ-16 too.... |
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Post by Gaëtan on Sept 20, 2019 19:09:53 GMT
Oh I have the SEQ-16 already (and having fun with it), I'm just wondering what external sequencing options could be interesting on a budget. I'm actually tempted to get a Microfreak just for the controller part.
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Post by spacedog on Sept 20, 2019 21:19:38 GMT
Oh I have the SEQ-16 already (and having fun with it), I'm just wondering what external sequencing options could be interesting on a budget. I'm actually tempted to get a Microfreak just for the controller part. It's a very useful synth. It has nice, and different, oscillators (including a few MI Braids ports), nice analogue filter, two envelopes (one cycling), great modulation routing and an excellent step sequencer (with four modulation slots that can be automated). The keyboard takes a little getting used to, but quickly becomes natural. The aftertouch (pressure) is great, once mastered and routed. Then there are the analogue outputs (pitch, gate and pressure). Very useful. I don't think that the presets do it any favours and I have spent time creating patches and then I recorded an album with just the MicroFreak using them. OK, advert over. Honestly, I was underwhelmed until I really got stuck in and that included getting to know the sequencer - I like sequencers and it's a good one. If I want to play a sequencer, the BeatStep Pro still wins. This one is great for setting up beforehand. As before, it depends on how you want to use and interact with the sequencer. |
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Post by anthonymd303 on Sept 25, 2019 19:20:03 GMT
Does anyone have any experience sequencing their AEM with the Novation Circuit. Grid based sequencers have always made the most sense to me and i have yet to try it. I'm still getting aquainted with my AEM and already have more modules on the way but i know very soon I'd like to see if my circuit will play nice with the AEM.
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Post by admin on Sept 26, 2019 23:15:05 GMT
Does anyone have any experience sequencing their AEM with the Novation Circuit. Grid based sequencers have always made the most sense to me and i have yet to try it. I'm still getting aquainted with my AEM and already have more modules on the way but i know very soon I'd like to see if my circuit will play nice with the AEM. I know that robertlanger always plays the AEM with his Novation Circuit. All you have to do is to connect it via the MIDI cable. It works great. |
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Post by fabian on Sept 27, 2019 6:45:06 GMT
Hi everyone,
this is my first forum post - yayy! Thanks to Robert at this point who have helped me for quite a long time with all my issues and inquiries!
This time I think this could be interesting or relevant to this thread and others on this forum. If not please link me to the correct thread:-).
So the problem: I am haveing struggles to sync my LFO via my beatstep pro. I use the following patch: clock out of the bsp into ctrl of the ae and then directly from ctrl i/o with the patch cable into the sync in of the LFO module.
Unfortunately it does not seem to be in sync? Any idea what could be wrong?
What I found odd is:
The clock light of AE is not lit. Should this be the case?
Does someone here know which clock signal AE uses: 1step, 24ppq, 48ppg, 2ppq ? - Maybe my bsp is set to send the wrong clock signal?
I appreciate your help guys!
Cheers
Fabian
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Post by admin on Sept 27, 2019 7:48:41 GMT
Hi fabian, this wouldn't be how you would connect your Beatstep. There are two ways how to connect external gear with clocks. I've usually connected my Keystep via MIDI as explained in this video: Or using the cv gate from either the Keystep the Master I/O ports I'm sure it would be similar for the Beatstep Pro. Now once you receive MIDI clock from the BUS CLK output you would want to step it down via the Beatdivider module. So MIDI -> MASTER MIDI, BEATDIVIDER BUS CLK -> BEATDIVIDER CLK, BEATDIVIDER OUT A -> TRIQ 164 (for example). Hope this helps! |
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Post by anthonymd303 on Sept 27, 2019 10:43:02 GMT
And make sure the bsp is set to the correct clock source(sync button upper left corner) i still make that mistake.
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Post by fabian on Sept 27, 2019 11:32:51 GMT
Thanks Carsten for sharing the videos! So my patch is simply just wrong.
The problem is, that my midi out of my bsp is already taken to play an other synth, so I just wanted to use an other source to sync the LFO. BTW I use the Modular as an external effect rack - I have external audio running through it and therefore want to sync filter, delay etc. to my master clock.
Carsten, if I get you right I should try syncing my AE LFO via the gate out of my bsp?
And just out of curiosity - why does my bsp clock out does not work for syncing?
@Anthony thanks for the hint! I got that one :-)!
Cheers
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Post by loopier on Sept 27, 2019 12:55:55 GMT
Oh I have the SEQ-16 already (and having fun with it), I'm just wondering what external sequencing options could be interesting on a budget. I'm actually tempted to get a Microfreak just for the controller part. Have you tried live coding? I've been playing around with patterns in Supercollider to sequence my AEM and it's great. Other languages easier if you're not into programming are TidalCycles and Sonic-Pi, all of which can send MIDI over USB. You need an adapter, but works great for me and has endless possibilities. It's not turning knobs, but is pushing buttons  |
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Post by spacedog on Sept 27, 2019 13:33:22 GMT
Thanks Carsten for sharing the videos! So my patch is simply just wrong. The problem is, that my midi out of my bsp is already taken to play an other synth, so I just wanted to use an other source to sync the LFO. BTW I use the Modular as an external effect rack - I have external audio running through it and therefore want to sync filter, delay etc. to my master clock. Carsten, if I get you right I should try syncing my AE LFO via the gate out of my bsp? And just out of curiosity - why does my bsp clock out does not work for syncing? @ Anthony thanks for the hint! I got that one :-)! Cheers Hi fabian I am happy to be corrected, but I think you have misinterpreted what the SYNC does on the LFO. Take a look at the video by Synths&Things here (at about 03.00): forum.aemodular.com/post/3531/threadThe SYNC resets the start of the recipient LFO to the sending LFO, no matter where the recipient is in its cycle. This is not the same as synchronizing the frequencies, which is what I believe you want to do. Why not use the gate out through a divider (if needed)...? You don't need the LFO. If you then want to match an LFO (for modulation), you have to do it by ear. Again, if someone has a wizard way of doing this I am all ears. My technique is to use it to modulate a beat and pass that through a delay that has already been beat-matched. Then it's simple to adjust the LFO by ear. |
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Whether you need an additional (I assume that you have the SQ16...?) sequencer does rather depend upon the style of music that you play. 
