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Post by Mafic_Pulse on Dec 27, 2021 21:00:01 GMT
Hello everyone! I am looking to build a modular set up to achieve lush, dark, textural, ambient drone layers of sound with interesting evolving melodies and rhythms. I became very inspired by Robert's Ambient Waves 2021 and 2019 performance, as well as the set he played with Antonia at DigitalAnalog 2020. These pieces really exemplify what I'm going for. I have attached two versions and was hoping for any advice before I put in my order. Is this too much as a starter who has been messing around with semi modular for a year (Neutron and 0-coast) and is finding it limiting? Am I missing anything essential here?I’m not sure about the topograph vs the TRIQ164 for drum patterns. I also included the MM-Div and TRIP, maybe this is too much? I am assuming I can only use a single effect in the Multi FX module at once? If so, how many of you have more than one Multi FX? Is there anyway to combine some of the modules like the ENV follower and Cirrius (when it becomes available) to make a Make-noise Morphogene type granular sample loop processing? Thanks for all your input. Attachments:
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Post by maydonpoliris on Dec 28, 2021 10:42:36 GMT
Hi Mafic_Pulse, welcome!. The first thing that springs to mind is that you might find one sequencer limiting, I'd go for the Seq8 as a second one. has a random mode too which the seq16 doesn't have. Also the 0-coast and neutron go well with the Ae and can be modulated via the 4I/O so I'd be keeping those to extend the Ae until you are sure you want to let them go. Both the Triq164 and the Topograph can do a lot (especially Topo for drums) but are very different so depends on your preferences, none are wrong. The MMdiv and trip are great modules and are my preferred options currently. I only have 1 multifx. cheers
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pol
Wiki Editors
Posts: 1,349
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Post by pol on Dec 30, 2021 21:26:44 GMT
I agree with what maydonpoliris has written. There are a some further things I would suggest... I would encourage you to get the system with blank panels/less modules first, even maybe just a 2 row system to get going. Then really learn what you need to have the system do what you want it to do. There will be a learning curve and more modules make it more daunting... get the basic modules to make the noise, inc. dronx/drone 38, some sequencing, a filter or 2, and some modulation/CV/trigger generation. The latter is a huge rabbit hole for the AE system... The multifx would be a good unit for what you are trying to do, and the quantizer sensible if you feel tuning(s) may be a problem. Some of the modules you have specified I suspect you would not end up using a much as well, depending on you studio set up. The 2 systems don't match completely - do you need a headphone out or not? There are other similar questions.... I would suggest having USB power from a main convertor and save your AE power supply, the main reason to have the AE USB out is the light... Also note some modules you have put on are not currently available which may affect decisions. FMOS and Cirrus spring to mind. I would highly recommend the Solina module. It looks to me like you haven't got enough CV/audio mixers for all the sources/destinations you are thinking of having, modules like 4ATTMIX/ 2ATTCV etc. These will be more useful (initially) than some of the processors you have put in, especially sine you are only showing 1 2VCA module. I would add the 4VCA module as well. The same applies with Envelopes, I only see 1 2ENV module on one system, the same on the other but the ADSR module as well. This still isn't a lot for the number of Oscillators/filters etc you are looking at getting, which leads back to my first point... Whatever you decide, enjoy,
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Post by maydonpoliris on Dec 30, 2021 22:15:35 GMT
pol "more modules make it more daunting..." This is soooo true. I've had a few modules arrive at once recently and I've turned into a mute... 😅
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Post by MikMo on Dec 30, 2021 23:14:58 GMT
instead of multiple FX modules you could go for one, and the STOMP IO. That way you could use any guitar pedal or outboard effect with your AE.
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Post by MikMo on Dec 31, 2021 11:51:18 GMT
you would probably also want more than one mixer, either two mix4 or the mixconsle.
With so many things going on ne mixer is not enough.
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Post by rockysmalls on Dec 31, 2021 12:33:18 GMT
Hi Mafic_Pulse , welcome!. The first thing that springs to mind is that you might find one sequencer limiting, I'd go for the Seq8 as a second one. has a random mode too which the seq16 doesn't have. Also the 0-coast and neutron go well with the Ae and can be modulated via the 4I/O so I'd be keeping those to extend the Ae until you are sure you want to let them go. Both the Triq164 and the Topograph can do a lot (especially Topo for drums) but are very different so depends on your preferences, none are wrong. The MMdiv and trip are great modules and are my preferred options currently. I only have 1 multifx. cheers interesting that you should mention the Seq8 modes... there is no documentation of what they are or how to use ‘mode cv’ input , either in the TW shop or the wiki seq8 page. pol ... if you do get around to some wiki editing this weekend maybe that’s something to add? @maydonpolaris .. do you have any more findings on that? ie: what level of cv hits random .. other modes.. pingpong, reverse?? i guess i should fire my ae up and figure it out for myself.
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Post by admin on Dec 31, 2021 12:47:10 GMT
interesting that you should mention the Seq8 modes... there is no documentation of what they are or how to use ‘mode cv’ input , either in the TW shop or the wiki seq8 page. pol ... if you do get around to some wiki editing this weekend maybe that’s something to add? @maydonpolaris .. do you have any more findings on that? ie: what level of cv hits random .. other modes.. pingpong, reverse?? i guess i should fire my ae up and figure it out for myself. I also only found out about it by accident. This is how to use the modes: - take the output of 2ATT/CV into the Mode CV on the SEQ8 - switch the 2ATT/CV to +5V - clock the SEQ8 with an LFO or something - now when you turn the 2ATT/CV knob, you can see how the run mode changes. Interestingly, the last run mode seems to be remembered even after you disconnect the Mode CV and even after you turned off the system.
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Post by rockysmalls on Dec 31, 2021 13:17:17 GMT
interesting that you should mention the Seq8 modes... there is no documentation of what they are or how to use ‘mode cv’ input , either in the TW shop or the wiki seq8 page. pol ... if you do get around to some wiki editing this weekend maybe that’s something to add? @maydonpolaris .. do you have any more findings on that? ie: what level of cv hits random .. other modes.. pingpong, reverse?? i guess i should fire my ae up and figure it out for myself. I also only found out about it by accident. This is how to use the modes: - take the output of 2ATT/CV into the Mode CV on the SEQ8 - switch the 2ATT/CV to +5V - clock the SEQ8 with an LFO or something - now when you turn the 2ATT/CV knob, you can see how the run mode changes. Interestingly, the last run mode seems to be remembered even after you disconnect the Mode CV and even after you turned off the system. yep, i’ve just been upstairs doing exactly that! 2Att/CV to the rescue.... modes are ( for all those prospective SEQ8 purchasers ) .. 7 o’clock to 10 o’clock (aprox) FORWARD. 10 o’clock to 12 o’clock REVERSE. 12 o’clock to 2 o’clock PING-PONG. 2 o’clock to 5 o’clock RANDOM!!!! can’t believe i hadn’t tried this yet... i’ve had a seq8 for more than a year...
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Post by maydonpoliris on Dec 31, 2021 13:34:42 GMT
cool glad you found it out rockysmalls thanks admin ! Its now a new free module for you
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pol
Wiki Editors
Posts: 1,349
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Post by pol on Dec 31, 2021 15:00:10 GMT
The mode CV input had been left blank as I didn't know what it did? Thought I'd asked someone (as don't own the module) but no record of reply, admin could you update as you appear to have investigated? Pol.
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Post by rockysmalls on Dec 31, 2021 15:28:46 GMT
cool glad you found it out rockysmalls thanks admin ! Its now a new free module for you indeed , what i like a lot about this is that in random mode if you just use one of those seperate outputs as a trigger you get a very very ‘sporadic’ trigger for some function or sound that is still completely in time.. i’m now even more happy i went for 2 of the small seq8’s rather than the seq16 that doesn’t have these modes... and they take up the same space... i don’t miss the ‘accent repeat’ as i have the Trip module ... all in all.. somewhat more versatile.. hats off to Robert..
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Post by Mafic_Pulse on Dec 31, 2021 17:29:29 GMT
Thanks for all the advice! I think I'm going to do a lot more research before I decide which modules to invest in at first.
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Post by pt3r on Dec 31, 2021 17:57:27 GMT
interesting that you should mention the Seq8 modes... there is no documentation of what they are or how to use ‘mode cv’ input , either in the TW shop or the wiki seq8 page. pol ... if you do get around to some wiki editing this weekend maybe that’s something to add? @maydonpolaris .. do you have any more findings on that? ie: what level of cv hits random .. other modes.. pingpong, reverse?? i guess i should fire my ae up and figure it out for myself. I also only found out about it by accident. This is how to use the modes: - take the output of 2ATT/CV into the Mode CV on the SEQ8 - switch the 2ATT/CV to +5V - clock the SEQ8 with an LFO or something - now when you turn the 2ATT/CV knob, you can see how the run mode changes. Interestingly, the last run mode seems to be remembered even after you disconnect the Mode CV and even after you turned off the system.
Well talking about a late Christmas present , I was completely oblivious of this control on my SEQ8s. Thanks a lot for this info, and a happy 2022
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Post by funbun on Jan 1, 2022 9:14:30 GMT
Instead of a three-row system, I'd get the Monsta case. This way you'll have plenty of room to grow.
You'll need an extra 2VCA module and an extra 2Envelop module. You may want to get the ADSR, but I prefer AD envelopes. As you learn and grow, you'll find that certain modules just won't fit into what you're doing. New modules will come along that will fit perfectly. You'll need room for those.
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Post by pt3r on Jan 1, 2022 10:31:38 GMT
Instead of a three-row system, I'd get the Monsta case. This way you'll have plenty of room to grow. You'll need an extra 2VCA module and an extra 2Envelop module. You may want to get the ADSR, but I prefer AD envelopes. As you learn and grow, you'll find that certain modules just won't fit into what you're doing. New modules will come along that will fit perfectly. You'll need room for those. I agree. I would advice to go for the bread and butter modules as found in the starter rack + the fx module and some extra vca and envelope modules and learn modular synthesis, this setup will let you experiment and discover freely in every possible direction also in drone/ambient. Once you develop your sound and see what is missing in the setup you can add more modules and learn. Since you're talking about plans for a big rack then it is indeed a good idea to start of with enough module real estate to put al those future modules, so get a big enough rack to put all those modules but start of with a more limited set of modules to really learn the ropes without being overwhelmed, even a two tier starter rack can be really overwhelming since this is not a semi modular, you must patch every connection to obtain even the simplest beep.
And make sure to buy enough cables, at least double the amount of patch cables that comes with the starter rack.
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pol
Wiki Editors
Posts: 1,349
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Post by pol on Jan 1, 2022 15:54:05 GMT
And make sure to buy enough cables, at least double the amount of patch cables that comes with the starter rack.
Yep, can vouch for that one, have patch wires on nearly every order and still never seem to have enough!
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Post by maydonpoliris on Jan 1, 2022 21:07:41 GMT
as pt3r said "even a two tier starter rack can be really overwhelming since this is not a semi modular, you must patch every connection to obtain even the simplest beep" This! Patch notes/examples, instructional vids/demos, wiki are a must really.
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Post by Mafic_Pulse on Jan 2, 2022 0:02:17 GMT
First off thanks for the wisdom! The reason I was starting out big is because I know the sound I want and I have a year of patching the Neutron and 0-coast with the MPC and Keystep both independently and cross patching the semi-mods. I believe I have a good understanding of what they can and can't do for me. The "can't do" is why I want to go full modular. Considering all the advice (THANKS!) I think I came up with a solution that is an expanded stater system with doubles of some of the bread and butter modules with a 3rd tier that is dedicated to the drone. Master I/O and HP amp Bræd and Butter 2LFO x2 2VCA x2 2ENV x2 Noise 2ATT/CV 2S&H Mixer 4-4, 4ATTMix, and DronX – mixers MultiFX and Delay – FX 2OSCd and Wavetables – melodic voices NYLE, Wasp, SV – filters SEQ8 and rbss – sequencers, I also have the Keystep and/or MPC for sequencing. TRIP – seems like it will be fun to do some wacky delay effects to a melody for rhythmic variations and accents. MM-Div – for dividing MIDI clock in and triggering the SEQ8/other modules. Wavefolder – adding flavor to the 2OSCd (or Noise, might not get this since I'm getting Wavetables, what do you think?) Quantizer – to quantize melodies from the 2OSCd and Wavetables. DRONE38 and Solina – drone textures and ambient chords Ultimately, I want to tune the oscillators of the DRONE38 to different chords or notes in a specific key for the tonal low end and low-mid range. Set the Solina for midrange texture and ambient chords and have the Wavetables and 2OSCd for evolving melodies. The Drone38 and Solina will be mixed by the DRONX and the variations on the Drone38 chords will be done manually with the faders. The Solina chord changes may be triggered by an "individual out" of the SEQ8 or some other trigger for more randomness. The Wavetables and 2OSCd will be triggered, SEQuenced, Quantized and effected (filters, envelopes, etc). I can do drums with the MPC for now and add rhythm modules later if I want to. Do I need the 4-4 Mix considering I have the 4ATTmix and the 2ATTcv (which will take over some attenuation duties if I'm using the 4ATTmix for mixing and attenuation) or should I keep the 4-4Mix and get rid of the 2ATTcv. I think there is overlap and not enough voices that will need all the mixing considering I can use the DRONX for the Solina. Anything I should add or drop (maybe drop TRIP, Wavefolder, and 4-4 Mix?) THANKS again!
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Post by admin on Jan 2, 2022 1:11:32 GMT
Hi Mafic_Pulse, The expanded starter rack is a good place to start also because there are some cost savings. About the tuning of the Dron38 to different notes of a chord .... It is theoretically possible, but you need patience to do it. Have you watched my video about the Drone38 and DronX? I'm explaining the tuning process there.
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Post by Mafic_Pulse on Jan 2, 2022 3:22:09 GMT
Hi Mafic_Pulse , The expanded starter rack is a good place to start also because there are some cost savings. About the tuning of the Dron38 to different notes of a chord .... It is theoretically possible, but you need patience to do it. Have you watched my video about the Drone38 and DronX? I'm explaining the tuning process there. Hey! Yes I've watched most of your videos, some several times! Thank you so much for posting such informative content. I know it'll be a pain in the @$$ but I'm willing to try and do what I can get the most out of the Drone38. It doesn't need to be exact tuning considering the overtones and all but I think it'll be worth the investment. I currently arrange drone chords using the neutron (2 oscillators and LFO to audio rate) with the additional 0-coast oscillator and it's slope generator to audio rate. This is a drone I set up and then play the synth voices on the MPC or my guitar over the drone; but that's only just one chord with evolving timbres and tones. I figure I can get the Æ set up in a similar but more satisfying way and have the modules kind of play it self while I manipulate the tones, faders, and sequencers to create evolving ambient music.
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Post by maydonpoliris on Jan 2, 2022 5:12:26 GMT
"Anything I should add or drop (maybe drop TRIP, Wavefolder, and 4-4 Mix?)"
I'd keep the Trip and probably drop the 4-4mix
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Post by Mafic_Pulse on Jan 17, 2022 3:39:47 GMT
Thanks for all your help, the rack is ordered!
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Post by admin on Jan 17, 2022 3:42:13 GMT
Thanks for all your help, the rack is ordered! Good luck with it all and I hope you'll post some of your patches here on the forum once you get started!
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S&E
Full Member
Posts: 116
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Post by S&E on Jan 17, 2022 7:19:04 GMT
Thanks for all your help, the rack is ordered! Your listing above looked good, but to truly master the dark arts you need gate and cv processors and other freaky sequencer like the Kyaa thing and what not. I know you know this, but as you build and patch and learn, don't feel fear to order another case (I'd get a double) and expand and re-arrange. I just went hog wild from the start and have 10 standard cases (8 are mine, 2 for a friend) with various pieces in various stages of build and delivery. Everything (or nearly) will be multi-tracked too which is essential for me. There were like 5-10% of the overall modules that even I did not see a need for (though I know what they do, I just don't need to go there) but otherwise I'm armed to the teeth, because why not. Enjoy :-)
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