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Post by chillja on Oct 16, 2021 15:38:15 GMT
Hi!  Happy to be here. I`m planning my AE modular case that can both integrate well with my existing hardware setup, and also be a functional (almost) self contained system. I will focus on the self contained part here first. The "almost" in self contained is because i`m planning to use a Beatstep pro for sequencing and clock, and pitch cv and gate cv derived from a turntable and crossfader to be a kind of macro controller. This is basically achieved by converting a single tone from the turntable and crossfader movements with a pitch to cv and envelope follower. For this i`m using a Squaver P1. My main goals with this system:
1) Expand (copy) turntable pitch and crossfader gate cv signals. Route said signals around patch. And mix/modulate/manipulate/process these signals.
2) Include sound modules with interesting cv controllable inputs.
3) Have an ocilloscope to be able to learn and understand modular synthesis better. 4) Basic Drums, bass and "other" voices. Modules in (mainly) category 1: 4BUFFER, MIXER 4-4, 3VCSWITCH, 2CVTOOL, TRIP, SLEW/EDGE, LOGIC Modules in (mainly) category 2: ALGODRONE, MULTIFX, FILTER WASP TYPE, SVFILTER, WAVEFOLDER Modules in (mainly) category 3: METER  Modules in (mainly) category 4: DRUMKIT010, 2OSC/d + 2ENV + 4VCA, ALGODRONE. For sequencing with the BSP i have this idea: Midi gate signals from drum seq to sequence rhythm of drums, bass and algo. Seperate pitch cv out from seq1 into MASTER I/O module for use on bass voice pitch. If this works, then it will be 2 in on MASTER I/O for turntable pitch and crossfader gate signals. 1 in for BSP pitch cv. And 1 out from MIXER 4-4. Some questions: - Is the output from LOGIC only on/off or dynamic when e.g. processing 2 different envelope signals? This stuff is new to me, is it called digital or analog logic? - Can wavefolder also work on cv, lets say a looping envelope? - Will this system work as i intended do you think? Something to be improved or that simply won`t work? Thats it for now, any comments or questions are welcome!  Edit: The reason for narrow case is to fit inside my turntable`s lid, numark pt01 touring. I will look into the option of a starting set if it`s possible to get it with a narrow case. And if so, what i might save on costs |
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Post by pt3r on Oct 16, 2021 17:04:01 GMT
I don't understand how your turnable + mixer will generate cv but you could of course bring its output into the system via 4 I/O module which will make it available as voltages in your rack. In modular everything is voltage you can either listen to a modulating voltage and it will be a sound if it modulates fast enough or you can use that same voltage as a cv to control other modules in the rack.
As far as sequencing over midi goes AE modular cannot distinct different midi channels you either make it react to one specific midi channel or it react to every incoming midi channel. So no you will not be abble to use one midi channel to sequence drums and another channel to sequence a synth voice. I don't know BSP but if it can send out signals over separate cv outputs then you better go that way and bring in those external CV signals via the 4 I/0 module or the master module.
As said everything is voltage in your modular world so yes you can feed cv signals into the wavefolder and mangle them up to your hearts delight.
A METER is really nice to have but no indispensable to start learn synthesis. A 4vca could definitely use another 2env module. I see a lot of module choices that I don't know whether you already see how you will use them or what they're used for.
If you want to start in modular and learn it get a starter rack 2+ multifx module and and extra 2env and 2vca module. It will give you more bang for you buck and you will be able to learn how modular works.
My 2 cents.
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pol
Wiki Editors
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Post by pol on Oct 16, 2021 19:23:57 GMT
For sequencing with the BSP i have this idea: Midi gate signals from drum seq to sequence rhythm of drums, bass and algo. Seperate pitch cv out from seq1 into MASTER I/O module for use on bass voice pitch. If this works, then it will be 2 in on MASTER I/O for turntable pitch and crossfader gate signals. 1 in for BSP pitch cv. And 1 out from MIXER 4-4.
Some questions:
- Is the output from LOGIC only on/off or dynamic when e.g. processing 2 different envelope signals? This stuff is new to me, is it called digital or analog logic?
- Can wavefolder also work on cv, lets say a looping envelope?
- Will this system work as i intended do you think? Something to be improved or that simply won`t work?
I believe the Algodrone's tempo is not sync'able, other than that your midi gate can control tempo of rest of AE. The other 2 items you mention should be fine, I assume you mean to control an external bass synth? I would suggest getting the 4/4 fader rather than the regular 4/4 mixer/att as it is easier to mix levels etc in my experience. They are functionally the same. The Wavefolder would do something to a CV, not sure what you mean by a looping envelope/what you are trying to achieve with the Wavefolder like this, but you can do looping envelopes with modules that have the End output - you connect to the in of the same ENV and it will re-trigger. wavefolder would change the waveform (inc LFO), not the voltage per see. wiki.aemodular.com/pmwiki.php/AeManual/2ENVwiki.aemodular.com/pmwiki.php/AeManual/ADSRIt is great you have a clear plan of what you want to achieve, but I echo pt3r in that I feel it would be best not to buy it all at once. I certainly wouldn't fill the case to start with or, in a few months time, you'll be going "Wish I had room for another 2LFO module" or similar. The Beatstep Pro works fine with the AE, midi and CV,  . At this time the AE does not have a pitch to CV or envelope follower module, I know the latter is in development. The Squaver P1 you mention will do this, but the CV it generates may go over +5V so must go through an I/O (Master or Power unit, 4 I/O - I recommend to add the latter to give you more connection options as the P1 has a few more as well). I would suggest your initial AE system supports the synthesis on the P1, (e.g. filters, Algodrone, 2LFO), and then add modules as you learn what you need. Less of a learning curve as well! wiki.aemodular.com/pmwiki.php/AeManual/4IOWhatever you do, enjoy. |
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Post by chillja on Oct 16, 2021 22:39:27 GMT
Thanks a lot for your replies! Some very valid points i will take time to think about and consider! I will try to clear up some points that may have been confusing in my first post. And add some comments pt3r By use of a timecode vinyl's output through a pitch to cv converter for cv. And an envelope follower after the crossfader to get (gate) cv. There are diffrent options, this is the way i have it: turntable with timecode signal(sound) out to mixer with crossfader, then sound output from mixer to squaver p1. Squaver converts the incomming pitch of the sound from timecode vinyl (timecode is mostly one tone), to pitch cv. When no sound from timecode vinyl is let through mixer (crossfader closed), the squaver p1's envelope follower does not generate any cv, when crossfader open, the envelope follower in squaver converts that to both envelope and gate cv. I use a phase (mwm) controller instead of timecode vinyl (for different reasons), but for this examlple i use timecode vinyl. There are different options and ways to do it! Feel free to look up "syntablism" on youtube to learn more from people that are way more experienced and better than me explaining:) Thanks, this is what i was wondering too but concluded like you said not to be possible after doing some research. Only one or all midi channels possible as of now. BSP can indeed send out seperate cv signals. I can do it like you said using only seperate cv out from bsp going through AE's in/out modules. I was wondering the possibilities of using a combination of one midi channel from bsp (drum seq. i think midi ch10 by default) _and also seperate cv outputs from bsp (for pitch) into 4IN/OUT (to save on in/out modules). Cool All valid points! The last point is somewhat true, especially when it comes to the 1) category modules in my post. Thank you very much for this reply, it will help me for sure! This is where adding one module at a time slowly might be (very) useful to learn by doing and see what is really needed. Some thoughts i had about them: - 4BUFFER to multiply and/or mix incoming cv. - Mixer 4-4 to mix cv and audio that is supposed to go out to external mixer/speakers (attenuation of said mixed cv signals here would def. be useful, but the attenuators will most likely be used for mixing the audio out. - 3VCSWITCH mostly for dynamic routing of cv, say one cv signal to a filters cutoff _or to algrodrone fine freq for example. Also choosing between two different cv signals to go to only one parameter. I'm unsure about this module or the SWITCHMATRIX one.. - 2CVTOOL for example to invert cv (this i have tried out and works great, inverting turntable pitch cv made slow vinyl movements output higher cv voltage, and faster movements, lower voltage). The offset part is a part of this module i still dont know how will turn out in practice, though i feel it to be useful based on what someone else told me about their syntablism patch. For finding a good sounding place to start the modulation on a given parameter? I'm not sure if this or the POLAMIX module. - TRIP also something i will have to try out to see if it will prove to have a place in the case. My intial inspiration was sending it a gate signal (from crossfader) and at the same time control some of its timebased parameters with turntable cv. With a 3cvswitch sending _either regular gate signals to hihat for main rhythmic pattern _or trips output to hihat for some wild variation of hihat`s pacing and rhythm. Just and idea:) - SLEW not really sure, one possible use i would like to try is slewing the trip's output from the example above, to not use on rhytmic elements like hihat, but instead for something more suited for more gradual changes like filter cutoff. (as im writing this i will probably leave slew out because i have other slew options with other gear i already own. So i can try out its usefulness first, before deciding to use AE rackspace for it. - LOGIC not really sure, and i have access to a passive "Logic Gate OR combiner" (Short Bus V.3) i will have to try out first to see if MORE logic is something i realy need in this case. Or what its all about really:) pol Thanks. Your right, there is still alot for me to learn here, no traditional tempo sync, but gate to reset loop (EDIT: maybe not neccesairly a loop even). From the wiki: "GATE - Resets the current algorithm run to the start". By bass synth i ment using 2OSC/d into 4VCA with the 2ENV cv to one of the vca's as bass voice inside AE. Okay, very much thanks! Okay! Looping envelopes, yes. My reasoning for not including an lfo was that i thought it might be possible to loop one of the 2ENV's or the SLEW/EDGE for some very crude lfo action. Greateful for your advice here! The point about not to input more than +5v _except using the modules you mentioned is so important. Supporting the original synthesis option of squaver is great advice as it will always be part of the more self contained setup. I have not really found the right use of it's synth-voice for me (as its always shifting pitch), but it's voice got some interesting cv input options. Maybe if i include a 2SIGNALAMP together with the 4I/O you mentioned i can raise it's synth output to AE modular level and use it as another cv source? Your replies really help me in the right direction now! As im now considering how "minimal" and self contained this system has to be, on expense of less room for expansion in the direction i find out i really would like and need later on, and still have the option of a fairly small setup (mostly down to form factor). As for other gear i have now i will list it at the end this post Allen&Heat 10FX, Neutron, 0-coast, Bastl Kastle, bsp, rhythm wolf, leploop multicassa, a small case of passive eurorack modules with 2x mults, 3x attenuator, 2x lpg, 4x lpg or Vca`s, simple mixer (no controls), half wave rectifier and logic gate or combiner. Lyra-8, fieldkit fx, squaver p1 and some passive 0hp modules (envelope/slew, hpf, bpf)
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Post by pt3r on Oct 17, 2021 10:39:29 GMT
I completely forgot about the timecode thing that turntables have been able to produce for the last 20+? years. So yes you're clearly settled there on generating that cv so in order to bring all these different cv signals in you will definitely be happy with an extra 4 I/O module, alongside the power module.
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Post by chillja on Oct 17, 2021 14:23:39 GMT
Yes, the 4i/o it's of course very much needed! Still contemplating between using the power or the master module. It depends on the modules in the rack, but midi will often save me many in/outs for things like gates when there are drums to be sequenced. And bsp can compensate with it's cv out when the one midi-ch is already in use.
I might also add that im aware of and likely to get the soundmachines nanobridge i read about on this forum. I think i understand some of its quirks (not normalizing to 2.5V AE standard, has to be connected to ground and +5v). I know "sound" based signals (+/- alternating?) will not work well going into AE from it. This includes osc cv signals and maybe lfo's and inverted/attenuverted ones i guess. Maybe others.
Will signals from AE be able to be sent out the nanobridge to other eurorack-like hardware without issues? Beside the max +5V signal's part.
And would it be ok to send cv out from AE with nanobridge, into a passive attenuator (using 3,5 mono jack) and then back again into AE through the nanobridge? My idea is to use passive attenuator outside of AE to attenuate a signal going from module to module inside AE itself.
Im planning to mostly use nanobridge for signals going out, and AE's master/power/4i/o for signals going in, at least those i know will be alternating ones.
About my case, after a look at what i have in hardware now i figured i have enough in the "dark, analogoue and noisy/glitchy (thinking lyra and kastle)" -style. Might leave algodrone for now, and maybe go for some sounds i dont have, like wavetables:)
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pol
Wiki Editors
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Post by pol on Oct 17, 2021 19:35:35 GMT
Yes, the 4i/o it's of course very much needed! Still contemplating between using the power or the master module. It depends on the modules in the rack, but midi will often save me many in/outs for things like gates when there are drums to be sequenced. And bsp can compensate with it's cv out when the one midi-ch is already in use. I would suggest getting the Master Module for the reasons you mention, you can't be sure how it will all work together at this stage and midi gives you options...I might also add that im aware of and likely to get the soundmachines nanobridge i read about on this forum. I think i understand some of its quirks (not normalizing to 2.5V AE standard, has to be connected to ground and +5v). I know "sound" based signals (+/- alternating?) will not work well going into AE from it. This includes osc cv signals and maybe lfo's and inverted/attenuverted ones i guess. Maybe others. Will signals from AE be able to be sent out the nanobridge to other eurorack-like hardware without issues? Beside the max +5V signal's part. YesAnd would it be ok to send cv out from AE with nanobridge, into a passive attenuator (using 3,5 mono jack) and then back again into AE through the nanobridge? My idea is to use passive attenuator outside of AE to attenuate a signal going from module to module inside AE itself. Should work in theory, like most things it depends exactly how you use it.Im planning to mostly use nanobridge for signals going out, and AE's master/power/4i/o for signals going in, at least those i know will be alternating ones. About my case, after a look at what i have in hardware now i figured i have enough in the "dark, analogoue and noisy/glitchy (thinking lyra and kastle)" -style. Might leave algodrone for now, and maybe go for some sounds i dont have, like wavetables:) |
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Post by chillja on Oct 17, 2021 20:03:27 GMT
Here is my AE system, this one i'm really happy with! I won't nor can't explain it all in detail (the kind of learning curve i love, the steep, deep and never ending one), but I feel this is the one Thankful for your replies, and comments! They helped me for sure in different ways This system in my view, would be able to play some pretty immersive psytrance, for example  (i like a wide spectrum of sounds, it was just the gerne i had in my mind while figuring it all out) Using an external bass synth, beatstep pro, and turntable&fader control over the nanobridge and the native in/outs, that is. There might be some obvious mistakes i don't see yet. One thing of importance for me was having enough mixing (and multing of course) options for the cv signals. For usual cv mixing options (and not including mults) the options i'm seeing are MIXER 4-4(B-channel), 4BUFFER (flexible options), and POLAMIX. Also the SWITCHMATRIX. This module especially i see alot of possibilities with, and really like among all the other great ones. It will be the main place for receiving 4 kinds of (hopefully interesting and complex) cv's for then to be routed around the patch. It's options to not only store and manually change patterns but also being able to be sequenced for pattern changes, like some kind of cv routing-sequencer, blows my mind at least. For example sequencing between several stored patterns, looking almost identical, but with some lights changing state here and there for a "not all changes at once, all the time" but still allowing for "some continuous movement and flow" of cv within in the patch.   |
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S&E
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Post by S&E on Oct 18, 2021 6:43:26 GMT
I like what u are doing. The older Korg grooveboxes had an audio to midi thing, but in the modular world there is much more room to explore these things.
I just received my 2-tier starter, and I have a 4-tier with the appropriate modules on order with the big man. For that, I decided to get a master unit instead of just power. This way they can be independent (while linked) and also u just get so much more (including midi which doesn't hurt) for only a little more space.
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Post by chillja on Oct 18, 2021 6:51:30 GMT
I removed the KICK (I have several other options here, including designing one with the neutron e.g), and the POWER. Included MASTER instead. The extra options midi will give me will also prove to be good to have in a different setup i have in mind: a laptop based one where i'm able to use the turntable's timecode for midi signals (using ms pinky's digital vinyl system) and converting that to cv (had sucess with this using the neutrons assign out. Got a modwheel/pitchwheel-like cv that also differentiates between forwards and backwards movements. Quite grainy (midi 7bit to cv), but with a bit of slew it was smoother. I saw that AE has one midi CC option (20, if i recall) so i might be able to convert the turntables' midi signal with AE itself?
For clock sync i'm planning to use the bsp seperate clock cv out, so i dont need the divider module.
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Post by chillja on Oct 18, 2021 6:59:31 GMT
I like what u are doing. The older Korg grooveboxes had an audio to midi thing, but in the modular world there is much more room to explore these things. I just received my 2-tier starter, and I have a 4-tier with the appropriate modules on order with the big man. For that, I decided to get a master unit instead of just power. This way they can be independent (while linked) and also u just get so much more (including midi which doesn't hurt) for only a little more space. Thanks, it's true modular really opens up possibilities. As described in previous post midi to cv also works, but in a different way. The turntable's direct pitch to cv gives a much higher "resolution", responsiveness and expressive cv control, in my experience! Having the option to both signals will be a definite plus! |
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Happy to be here. I`m planning my AE modular case that can both integrate well with my existing hardware setup, and also be a functional (almost) self contained system. I will focus on the self contained part here first. The "almost" in self contained is because i`m planning to use a Beatstep pro for sequencing and clock, and pitch cv and gate cv derived from a turntable and crossfader to be a kind of macro controller. This is basically achieved by converting a single tone from the turntable and crossfader movements with a pitch to cv and envelope follower. For this i`m using a Squaver P1.
. 
(i like a wide spectrum of sounds, it was just the gerne i had in my mind while figuring it all out) Using an external bass synth, beatstep pro, and turntable&fader control over the nanobridge and the native in/outs, that is.
