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Post by pt3r on Oct 14, 2021 6:26:05 GMT
All right, I got your attention. Just a heads up; if your rack consumes too much power, i.e. you power too many modules from the AE wall wart or you just have to happen to have a couple of those more greedy digital modules installed like MULTIFX, CIRRUS, ALGODRONE then you will notice that the screen of that brand new METER can become erratic and even miss a few of the top lines. At least this is what hapened to me last night. The solution I used was to swap out the wall wart from my starterrack 2, which was powering my two 2x16 racks very nicely until CIRRUS moved in, with a Onespot heavy duty wall wart used to power guitar pedalboards + A POLARITY INVERTOR cable to make sure that it uses that same polarity as the original power supply that came with my starterrack. Reminder: Wall warts for guitar pedals and pedal boards have inversed polarity compared to the AE powersupply, and could do nasty stuff to your master module if you were to plug those in without a polarity invertor cable.Now my racks are juicy again, and my METER module display is back to normal. The end.
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Post by keurslagerkurt on Oct 14, 2021 15:02:39 GMT
Interesting! So this means the Power module can actually distribute more power than the wall wart can deliver. I haven't had issues yet (despite having MultiFX, Algodrone & Cirrus in the same rack), but I'm not sure I payed good attention to the METER at all times
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Post by thehatghost on Oct 14, 2021 15:37:36 GMT
I just had this happen to me yesterday with the METER, where the top 3/4 was blank and it looked the the graphics had shifted down. Thought I had fried it for sure! Got it working again with turning it off and on but it may be time for a new power supply. Thanks for the tip!
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namke
wonkystuff
electronics and sound, what's not to like?!
Posts: 689
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Post by namke on Oct 14, 2021 15:52:28 GMT
I'd be interested to know what is going on here (my assumption is that due to some current-heavy modules, the voltage is sagging and this is affecting the METER module - either the processor is flaking out or the display is... the display is driven as fast as possible, so it could be an edge case ). I wonder how much current is being consumed 'on paper' (e.g. adding up all the numbers from the grid) by the remaining modules?
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Post by Kyaa on Oct 14, 2021 16:08:46 GMT
Does anyone know what the max rated amperage for the master module is?
I'm glad that upgrading your wall-wart fixed your issue, but the circuitry might become equally erratic, or even burn itself out, if pushed too hard.
For reference, in theory, if you hooked up a 5amp power supply to the master, and only had one 100ma module hooked up, the DC-to-DC converter on the master would only be doing 100ma of 'work'. And if 1200ma of modules were hooked up, it would require 1200ma of work instead. There is a certain point though where asking the converter to do too much work would destroy it (probably to a inability to dissipate generated heat quickly enough).
I guess what I'm trying to say is, be careful adding modules after you've upgraded your power supply, as you might fry you master (among other things).
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Post by pt3r on Oct 14, 2021 16:16:43 GMT
The wall wart of the ae modular is alledgedly specced to provide 9 volts at 1.7A whereas my new power supply provides 9 volts at 1900mA so I don't think that I'm pushing the master module that much harder.
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Post by Kyaa on Oct 14, 2021 17:34:16 GMT
I think the official one is actually only 1.3a @ 9v, so 1.9a @ 9v would actually be a ~50% increase.
Your system is probably only pushing 1.4 amps or thereabouts (if it was drinking slightly more than the old wart could handle), so assuredly still within the realm of reason. I can't speak to whether or not the master could handle 1.9 amps though, that seems like a lot.
I mostly just wish there was a hard and fast limit stated by Tangible Waves / Robert that way there could be a 'line in the sand' so to speak.
I'd be sad if anyone broke their rig. 🙂
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Post by pt3r on Oct 14, 2021 18:08:12 GMT
I think the official one is actually only 1.3a @ 9v, so 1.9a @ 9v would actually be a ~50% increase. Your system is probably only pushing 1.4 amps or thereabouts (if it was drinking slightly more than the old wart could handle), so assuredly still within the realm of reason. I can't speak to whether or not the master could handle 1.9 amps though, that seems like a lot. I mostly just wish there was a hard and fast limit stated by Tangible Waves / Robert that way there could be a 'line in the sand' so to speak. I'd be sad if anyone broke their rig. 🙂 Perhaps robertlanger can chip in on this.
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Post by Kyaa on Oct 14, 2021 18:48:05 GMT
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Post by Kyaa on Oct 14, 2021 20:14:54 GMT
My finding is that I'm not nearly qualified enough to be messing w/ datasheets... 😅 I guess I did find some interesting information though. Max operating temp is 125deg C, and that there _isn't_ a max output current listed. So in theory (?) everything is within the listed parameters. I guess it's just making sure the chip doesn't get close to the 125deg, but that would have to be measured for the master module specifically, as that would change depending on how quickly the heatsink can dissipate heat. Attachments:
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Post by keurslagerkurt on Oct 14, 2021 20:28:49 GMT
My finding is that I'm not nearly qualified enough to be messing w/ datasheets... 😅 I guess I did find some interesting information though. Max operating temp is 125deg C, and that there _isn't_ a max output current listed. So in theory (?) everything is within the listed parameters. I guess it's just making sure the chip doesn't get close to the 125deg, but that would have to be measured for the master module specifically, as that would change depending on how quickly the heatsink can dissipate heat. It's right to the left of the empty spot: the 'typ' column should be the typical maximum current, which states 2.2A. good find! Maybe the 'min' value is the best one to stay 100% sure tho.. meaning 1.5A
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Post by pt3r on Oct 15, 2021 7:46:46 GMT
I'm a bit confused looking at the data sheet does this mean that 1.9a is still possible or am I going to fry my master module eventually?
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Post by admin on Oct 15, 2021 8:42:10 GMT
When I asked robertlanger about how much power the MASTER module could provide, he told me 800mA. So when you go to the Grid That's what you'll see when you plan your rack. It could be that it can power more modules, but it's safer to assume that 800mA is a limit per MASTER module, ie. per rack.
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Post by keurslagerkurt on Oct 15, 2021 9:20:02 GMT
I'm a bit confused looking at the data sheet does this mean that 1.9a is still possible or am I going to fry my master module eventually? The datasheets gives a minimum & typical 'maximum load value' = I_Omax, for usage under 15V voltage difference (like our use case). Basicly this means they tested a bunch of their chips, driving them with a load current until the go defect. Then they noted for each chip at which current it broke down. So on average they break down around 2.2A, being the 'typical' maximum load value. However, they also have a minimal value, being the value at which a few chips already started to stop working, in this case 1.5A. The 'maximum' maximum load value is of course a blank space, as it would not be very informative at which point the most extreme tested chip kept working. So in essence, most chips will work until around 2.2A, however, you can only be SURE that they work until 1.5A. This is also 1.5A at the 5V side of things, which would mean 800mA at the 9V side of things. (the Power must remain constant, P = U*I, so if voltage goes up, the current must come down. Other way to see it, is that U/I must remain at a fixed ratio, otherwise the conservation of energy law gets violated).
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Post by pt3r on Oct 15, 2021 9:24:45 GMT
When I asked robertlanger about how much power the MASTER module could provide, he told me 800mA. So when you go to the Grid That's what you'll see when you plan your rack. View AttachmentIt could be that it can power more modules, but it's safer to assume that 800mA is a limit per MASTER module, ie. per rack. Here's the catch in my power story, my whole 4x16 rack according to grid consumes well below 500ma. However meter acts up when the rack is powered from the original Wall wart whereas with the truetone wallwart I have no issues.
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Post by Kyaa on Oct 15, 2021 15:51:18 GMT
I'd say you're golden then. Just keep an eye on the power consumption of your rig on the grid, and as long as the total power use is under that recommended 800ma (as stated by Robert), you'll be fine regardless of how beefy your PSU is. I find that electronic systems can act erratically and fail when they are even close to their limits. By upgrading your PSU, you are essentially allowing your master module to supply the correct amount of power without flinching.
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Post by dmoney2000 on Oct 16, 2021 22:57:37 GMT
I have the same issue with the Meter module in my 4x16 row system. If I leave everything plugged in, and turn power on to the system at my surge protector, the top half of the screen will not show on Meter. But if I unplug the system from the power jack, and then re-insert the power jack, everything is fine. Hmm
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Post by pt3r on Oct 17, 2021 11:22:31 GMT
Here is my guess on what's happening, if you power the rack by plugging the powersupply in the powerstrip then it takes some time before the powersupply provides full power. During this powerup the Meter module is already booting since it has enough power and addressing the screen which in itself is no completely booted yet since the power provided by the powersuplly is not full level which leaves the Meter module in a state where the screen and the module are not properly synced. If you power the rack by plugging in the cable in the barrel connector on the master module the power supply is already past that ramping powerup moment thus the METER module works properly. Just a guess
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Post by thehatghost on Oct 20, 2021 16:57:43 GMT
I figured i would just throw in here that a little 2.1 inline barrel jack switch like the one in the link below is handy for powering up without plugging in and out all of the time.
www.adafruit.com/product/1125
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pol
Wiki Editors
Posts: 1,349
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Post by pol on Oct 20, 2021 17:21:36 GMT
I figured i would just throw in here that a little 2.1 inline barrel jack switch like the one in the link below is handy for powering up without plugging in and out all of the time.
www.adafruit.com/product/1125Great idea, just bought one online, another parcel to look forward to.
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Post by pt3r on Feb 26, 2022 9:09:59 GMT
As mentioned before robertlanger sent me a replacement for my broken SWITCHMATRIX 4x4 and the pleasant side effect is that I again can reliably power my 4x16 rack with the OG powersupply provided with my initial starterrack2. The only thing I must keep in mind is to plug in the wallwart and wait a few seconds before inserting the plug into the mastermodule, otherwise the METER module has some trouble initialising properly.
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